Military/CAP pre-made ribbon vendors

[lordmonar]

And holy crap, more than 40?   

Yep  17 CAP ribbons and 28 military ribbons.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As indicated, NHQ is supposed to be the final judge.

So far they haven't weighed in one way or another on CGAUX ribbons.

[Eclipse]

As indicated, NHQ is supposed to be the final judge.

So far they haven't weighed in one way or another on CGAUX ribbons.

You asked them directly and they didn't respond?

[J2H]

I will have one CAP ribbon once all my level 1  stuff is verified.  I  have like 13  military ones

[MIKE]

As an Auxie and former CAP member, I would not support wearing Auxiliary specific awards on anything other than an Auxiliary Uniform... or conversely wearing CAP awards on an Auxiliary uniform... which is prohibited by AUXMAN.  No one in CAP is going to care about my Marine Safety Training Ribbon.

However; Federal USCG awards like the CGPUC, CGUC etc should not be prohibited from wear because the member earned it as Auxiliarist or even a Civilian employee... when a USCG or USCGR member gets to wear it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

You asked them directly and they didn't respond?

As in have I asked SP?  No, I have not done that.  However, I have checked the Knowledgebase several times over the years (I just did so again) and find no mention of the topic at all; just actual CG ribbons.

As an Auxie and former CAP member, I would not support wearing Auxiliary specific awards on anything other than an Auxiliary Uniform... or conversely wearing CAP awards on an Auxiliary uniform... which is prohibited by AUXMAN.  No one in CAP is going to care about my Marine Safety Training Ribbon.

However; Federal USCG awards like the CGPUC, CGUC etc should not be prohibited from wear because the member earned it as Auxiliarist or even a Civilian employee... when a USCG or USCGR member gets to wear it.

I know the AUXMAN doesn't allow CAP ribbons, and when I was in the AUX I didn't wear CAP ribbons on the CG uniform.  That was spelt-out clearly.  The converse is not.  However, even my Division Captain (retired USCGR) said "it's not allowed, true, but I don't see why, since CAP awards are overseen by the Air Force."

I have asked two of my Squadron CC's (a retired Navy Corpsman Chief Warrant Officer and a retired Marine senior NCO).

Squadron CC #1: "You earned them.  Wear them."
Squadron CC #2: "I haven't got a problem with it, unless someone higher up the chain tells you not to."

I should mention I have never worn anything but CAP ribbons on the G/W (or CSU)...because regulations are quite clear about CAP awards only.

I am not trying to be a showoff.  If CAP and/or the Air Force says "no, CAP members cannot wear CGAUX ribbons on the AF/CAP uniform," (for example as with State Defence Force/National Guard State Ribbons) then I would remove them without complaint or challenge.

[Devil Doc]

The question is......

Should we be able to wear Military Ribbons on the G/W Uniform?

[MIKE]

No, because some services prohibit wear in their specific uniform regs.

[ColonelJack]

I will have one CAP ribbon once all my level 1  stuff is verified.  I  have like 13  military ones

You gotta start somewhere!   

Jack

[lordmonar]

So CyBorg you are saying that the CGAUX is just like CAP in that they have "leaders" who just do what they feel like instead of what their regs say. 

[Devil Doc]

No, because some services prohibit wear in their specific uniform regs.

Actually, Army encourages you to wear ribbons. If there is Regs than alot of DAV,VFW, Patriot Guard Riders are breaking regs.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So CyBorg you are saying that the CGAUX is just like CAP in that they have "leaders" who just do what they feel like instead of what their regs say. 

Actually, no.

CGAUX regs specifically state what can/can't be worn on the CGAUX uniform.  My Division Captain said he believed CAP ribbons should be wearable on the CGAUX uniform...but he acknowledged they weren't, and I didn't wear them.

CAP regulations have a lot more "wiggle room."  I honestly wish CAP would be more definitive on the subject, so we would definitely know one way or the other.  I would have no problem removing CGAUX ribbons if that's what the regs actually said.

[Eclipse]

CAP regulations have a lot more "wiggle room."  I honestly wish CAP would be more definitive on the subject, so we would definitely know one way or the other.  I would have no problem removing CGAUX ribbons if that's what the regs actually said.

No, they really don't.

Are they explicitly authorized?  No.

Did you call NHQ in that regard and receive authorization for an unusual or non-indicated military decoration as 39-1 directs?  No.

Where's the wiggle room?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CAP regulations have a lot more "wiggle room."  I honestly wish CAP would be more definitive on the subject, so we would definitely know one way or the other.  I would have no problem removing CGAUX ribbons if that's what the regs actually said.

No, they really don't.

Are they explicitly authorized?  No.

Did you call NHQ in that regard and receive authorization for an unusual or non-indicated military decoration as 39-1 directs?  No.

Where's the wiggle room?

Very bloody well, sir.  I will contact NHQ.  The reason I have not is that I have done so on many, many occasions in the past unrelated to this particular issue and all I've gotten is word-for-word regurgitations of 39-1.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Ask to speak to their supervisor?

[NC Hokie]

Very bloody well, sir.  I will contact NHQ.  The reason I have not is that I have done so on many, many occasions in the past unrelated to this particular issue and all I've gotten is word-for-word regurgitations of 39-1.

Despite the fact that 39-1 has holes you could orbit a planet through, that is actually the correct approach to "gray areas" such as CGAUX ribbons. The very first paragraph of Chapter 1 states:

COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.

NHQ staffers can show you what IS allowed, but they cannot make judgment calls on "gray areas" because it's not their job and the controlling publication directs that anything not specifically addressed is not allowed.

Enough of that...let's look at your specific issue.

Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence. See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.

A straight reading of that document (the only possible reading allowed by Paragraph 1-1) says that you may wear any military service ribbon "awarded in writing by competent military authority." There's nothing there about how you were serving when the award took place, so any noise about having to be on active duty, etc. is just that...noise.

Earned a CGPUC or CGUC while volunteering with the CGAUX? Give the appropriate CAP personnel a copy of the award citation and proof that you were a CGAUX member during the specified period and put it on your rack. Doing so might make heads explode in your AOR ("How'd that guy get a CGPUC without earning any other CG awards?"), but you earned it and CAP says you can wear it, so have at it.

But don't wear it on any of the corporate uniforms!

[MIKE]

^ Compare your CAPM 39-1 quote to the slightly different wording of CAPR 39-3.

[NC Hokie]

^ Compare your CAPM 39-1 quote to the slightly different wording of CAPR 39-3.

You mean this?

Decorations, ribbons and badges authorized for wear on the U.S. Air Force uniform may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority to a member for service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies as outlined in CAPM 39-1.

Yeah, that presents a small problem for my well-constructed argument. 

CyBorg...forget what I said.

I'll crawl back into my hole now! 

Edited to add that one wouldn't expect to see military awards covered in a publication entitled Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons and Certificates.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

However, 39-3 has holes in it too, in this context referring to service performed in the service of an allied nation.

I've talked before about having served in a squadron with a retired French-Canadian fighter pilot who was flying for United.  He had umpteen hours flying the CF-5 (Canadair-built F-5) out of the big fighter bases at Cold Lake, Alberta and Bagotville, Quebec.


(Incidentally, these Squadron Prints are quite nice and there's examples of almost every unit/aircraft, etc. one can think of)

He said NHQ would not let him wear any of his Canadian ribbons, though they did let him wear his wings.



They would not even let him wear his Canadian Forces Decoration - kind of their equivalent of a Good Conduct Medal, except it takes 12 years to get a first award of it (or, as they sometimes say, "12 years of undetected crime").

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=CD

My point?  CAP is often very capricious/inconsistent at what they will/will not allow to be worn...and to me, the accomplishments of my former Quebecois colleague should have been wearable on the CAP uniform.

[PHall]

However, 39-3 has holes in it too, in this context referring to service performed in the service of an allied nation.

I've talked before about having served in a squadron with a retired French-Canadian fighter pilot who was flying for United.  He had umpteen hours flying the CF-5 (Canadair-built F-5) out of the big fighter bases at Cold Lake, Alberta and Bagotville, Quebec.


(Incidentally, these Squadron Prints are quite nice and there's examples of almost every unit/aircraft, etc. one can think of)

He said NHQ would not let him wear any of his Canadian ribbons, though they did let him wear his wings.



They would not even let him wear his Canadian Forces Decoration - kind of their equivalent of a Good Conduct Medal, except it takes 12 years to get a first award of it (or, as they sometimes say, "12 years of undetected crime").

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=CD

My point?  CAP is often very capricious/inconsistent at what they will/will not allow to be worn...and to me, the accomplishments of my former Quebecois colleague should have been wearable on the CAP uniform.

CAP is just following the Air Force's lead on this. If he was in the U.S. Air Force he wouldn't be allowed to wear his Canadian decorations either.