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Author Topic: 2013 Combat Control Orientation Course  (Read 3734 times)
Spartan
Forum Regular

Posts: 129
Unit: NCR-MN-131

« on: February 07, 2013, 12:12:37 AM »

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The activity that gives you a look into the Special Tactics officers and Combat Control Air Force career fields is back for a 5th year. The 2013 Combat Control Orientation Course is accepting applications for the course occurring 4 August – 10 August 2013.  Applications are due no later than 2359:59 hours, 15 May 2013. This physically demanding, activity is filled with high adventure activities and training opportunities that are not available anywhere else in Civil Air Patrol. Senior members and cadets are eligible to attend as students.

The course curriculum includes
-History of the Combat Control and Special Tactics Officer career fields
-Hands on leadership instruction
-Static line parachute familiarization to include exit from a 34' tower.
-CCT weapons and equipment familiarization
-Air Traffic Control procedure familiarization
-Physical fitness instruction from USAF Combat Control School instructors
-Freefall instruction, culminating in freefall techniques in a vertical wind tunnel
-Introduction to tips, tactics, and techniques used by Special Tactics Officers and Combat Control Teams
-Touring the Airborne and Special Forces Museum

To be eligible to attend CCOC, student candidates must meet certain requirements:
CADETS
-15+ years old no later than 3 Aug 2013
-C/SSgt or higher
-CAP Encampment graduate
-Be in physical category I (unrestricted) and in good physical condition
-Pass ALL events on the physical assessment submitted as part of the basic application

SENIOR MEMBERS
-18+ years old
-Completed Level 1
-2d Lt/FO or higher
-Be in physical category I (unrestricted) and in good physical condition
-Pass ALL events on the physical assessment submitted as part of the basic application

A completed basic application consists of the following:
-A typed CAPF 31 with ALL required signatures on P-4 to include Wing and Region Commanders if you are not a member of NCWG or MER.  Your region policies may differ.  Ensure you meet all requirements for your region’s out of region activity policy.
-A completed physical assessment worksheet with a PASS in ALL events certified by your squadron commander or their designated representative
-If you don't do an event it will be marked as a fail
-Any failure on one event is considered a failure of the entire assessment

There is a plethora of additional information that can be found at the activity website www.capcombatcontrol.com. The physical assessment worksheet and instructions as well as the waiver forms for the training activities can be found on the website as well.

There are 20 hard slots that are awarded by a board that reviews each application for completeness. Selection results for primary slots and secondary slots will be released on or about 1 June.

There are a few tips that can help with a smooth selection process for your application:
-Type everything that can be typed.  Some people have illegible handwriting and if we cannot read it, we cannot process the application.
-Proof read your application for errors
-Include an E-Mail Address that you check regularly (We do almost all of our communications by e-mail)
-Ensure that before you send an application in, it has the required signatures and accompanying paperwork
-Have your chain of command physically sign a copy of P-4 of your CAPF 31. Printing a PDF copy, signing it and sending a scanned copy is acceptable. Ensure that the P-4 you send has all the endorsements you need prior to submitting your application.
-If you have an issue and need an exception to policy, contact the XO personally. Do this even if you have your Squadron/CC, Group/CC, Wing/CC contacting the XO to explain the situation. The other person contacting the XO on your behalf may not have all the facts or has misinterpreted something.
-Show the core values when you take your physical assessment. We give the physical assessment on day one of the course. If you cannot pass the assessment on day one, we will send you home. This is not a joke or a scare tactic. We have sent students home each year at their expense because they were not capable of completing the physical assessment.
-If something is not clear, ask the XO. It is part of his job to advise you on how to get your applications turned in correctly

Applications and questions can be sent electronically to ccoc-xo@ncwg.cap.gov or a hard copy can be sent to the following address.

CCOC
5345 Ballentine St.
Hope Mills, NC 28348

Aaron M. Schaak, Capt, CAP
Instructor, CCOC
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Rick-DEL
Forum Regular

Posts: 143

« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 09:19:50 AM »

Thanks for posting Spartan, I am intersted and will be looking over the material/requirements as well as my calendar.
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a2capt
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 01:35:31 PM »

Senior Members? Interesting. What role is that, student or support staff? Is that part of the 20, are they taking slots that cadets could otherwise occupy?

The requirements kinda imply that there's more than the typical TAC/Escort type reasoning for being there.
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Stonewall
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Posts: 3,834

« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 01:47:51 PM »

Senior Members? Interesting. What role is that, student or support staff? Is that part of the 20, are they taking slots that cadets could otherwise occupy?

The requirements kinda imply that there's more than the typical TAC/Escort type reasoning for being there.


Go to the website and look around, it'll lead you to some pictures and I think a video.  I saw seniors participating as well as standing on the side lines looking the part of cadre.  I'd assume that if seniors are required to take part in the physical assessment, they're likely to do more than watch.

I'm always up for a good time, I just don't have enough time.
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LGM30GMCC
Seasoned Member

Posts: 314

« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 03:25:28 PM »

Just a note...

Seniors can't be in Physical Fitness Category I

Since we don't have a physical fitness program/requirements we have no classifications at all. They could have 'no medical conditions preventing participation in any part of the physical fitness test...'  :angel:

Looks pretty cool though, kinda wish I could take the time to do something like this but as it is I'm getting too old for Spec Ops (to go for the course) and I HIGHLY doubt my functional would be willing to give me up anyway.
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Spartan
Forum Regular

Posts: 129
Unit: NCR-MN-131

« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 10:40:04 PM »

Seniors can't be in Physical Fitness Category I

Since we don't have a physical fitness program/requirements we have no classifications at all. They could have 'no medical conditions preventing participation in any part of the physical fitness test...'

You raise a good point about a technicality of the physical fitness category.  It is easier to explain that they need to meet the standard for physical fitness category 1 than it is to get into the "if" and "but" that will come from the question "does my advanced stage anthrax infection meet the requirements?" (Yes I am being hyperbolic here).

Senior Members? Interesting. What role is that, student or support staff? Is that part of the 20, are they taking slots that cadets could otherwise occupy?

The requirements kinda imply that there's more than the typical TAC/Escort type reasoning for being there.

Senior member are able to participate as students with the same level of participation, expectation of teamwork, as well as positive and negative incentive that the cadet students receive.  Senior members participating as students are counted as holding 1 of the 20 hard slots.  As the activity becomes more established, we are exploring the logistics of increasing the number of students.  Senior members who are students serve as a defacto TAC.  They are still responsible for CPP being enforced, and for helping ensure the safety of their fellow students as well as the staff.  (Everyone is a safety officer).  If you are interested in being a student, applications are being accepted until 15 May.

There are VERY limited senior staff member positions that with the exception of being a driver, require the individual to do the equivalent of 3-4 jobs a normal activity would expect.  Our logistics guru the last few years is also licensed in the mental health field.  The Course director is a DOD jumpmaster, and a former Army 1SG (First Sergeant for those of you who don't speak Army).  Our XO this year is also an Air Force flight medic.  The overlap and multiple hats is intentional to reduce the staff footprint.  If you are interested in being staff, contact the XO at the previously mentioned E-Mail address.  There are specific requirements for staff that are position dependant and are better addressed by the XO.

[/quote]
I saw seniors participating as well as standing on the side lines looking the part of cadre.  I'd assume that if seniors are required to take part in the physical assessment, they're likely to do more than watch.

I'm always up for a good time, I just don't have enough time.

You are correct.  Senior members are participating as students.  They do everything the cadet students do, including some of the same boneheaded things.  There has been one year that we had an all cadet class but other than that we have had senior members show up cadets pretty regularly.   >:D The 2012 course had 3 senior members as students.  I have fun being cadre.  I'll have to make sure my peers look busy in the pictures this year.
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NIN
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The Independent Cadet Program Resource
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 11:37:55 PM »

Ask Colonel Siemiet if he needs another AFF instructor and/or demo jumper. 

Us retired guys should be able to get into the act a little. As subject matter experts, of course, under close supervision for compliance with the Cadet Protection Program.

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Darin Ninness,
Lt Col, CAP
The content of this post is Copyright © 2011-2014 by Darin Ninness.  The right to reproduce the content of this post within CAP-Talk, for a quoted reply, by CAP-Talk users, is specifically granted. All other rights, including "Fair Use," are specifically reserved.
LGM30GMCC
Seasoned Member

Posts: 314

« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 02:30:04 PM »

I bring it up partially because there is more than a technicality.

Physical Fitness Category 1 is a little more than simply 'I say I'm good to go.' There's a list (including things like allergies and 'other limitations') on the CAPF 15 that if any of them are marked 'Yes' requires a physician to sign off. The physician may still say you are 'good to go' but the member doesn't get to make that call.

It's simply for consideration that you may want a doctor to say 'This person is good to go' rather than super-motivated SM to say 'I'm good to go' and then turn out to be not good to go and get seriously hurt doing something they should never have really been attempting. Even if CAP would not be liable, it's going to raise some unwanted attention on the activity as a whole. Just something to consider. Obviously a little late for this year but just future things to think about.  8)
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A.Member
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,417

« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 01:26:25 AM »

Curious, why after 5 years is this still not a NCSA?  Who sponsors this activitiy?
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Capt Hatkevich
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 01:50:51 AM »

Curious, why after 5 years is this still not a NCSA?  Who sponsors this activitiy?

I believe it is considered a "unit" activity?
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unmlobo
Member

Posts: 55

« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 05:05:19 PM »

During the course are SOWTs discussed or is it geared soley at CCTs? 
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Capt., CAP
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Spartan
Forum Regular

Posts: 129
Unit: NCR-MN-131

« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 09:08:29 PM »

Ask Colonel Siemiet if he needs another AFF instructor and/or demo jumper. 

Us retired guys should be able to get into the act a little. As subject matter experts, of course, under close supervision for compliance with the Cadet Protection Program.

I'll pass it on and see what he and the Course Director say.  I can't imagine they would turn down your offer unless they have an absurd amount of offers from folks that are local and connected with the operational units that support CCOC.

Curious, why after 5 years is this still not a NCSA?  Who sponsors this activitiy?

There are a lot of answers that we have been given for this question.  None of them make much sense to me and I won't get into speculation.  From an inside perspective, some of it is a local issue, some of it is an issue with National.  In my opinion, it is always better to have a strong sales pitch with a proven record, strong support from the DOD community and continuity than it is to go to National and say "we have this great idea."  We have the proven record, strong support from DoD units at Pope/Bragg and continuity galore.  Now in my opinion, it is about polishing CCOC until it shines.

I bring it up partially because there is more than a technicality.

Physical Fitness Category 1 is a little more than simply 'I say I'm good to go.' There's a list (including things like allergies and 'other limitations') on the CAPF 15 that if any of them are marked 'Yes' requires a physician to sign off. The physician may still say you are 'good to go' but the member doesn't get to make that call.

It's simply for consideration that you may want a doctor to say 'This person is good to go' rather than super-motivated SM to say 'I'm good to go' and then turn out to be not good to go and get seriously hurt doing something they should never have really been attempting. Even if CAP would not be liable, it's going to raise some unwanted attention on the activity as a whole. Just something to consider. Obviously a little late for this year but just future things to think about.  8)

You raise a good point about liability.  Most of the people who are physically unable to participate are excluded by the physical assessment either on application or on day one.  Because of the physically intense nature of the course, the physical assessment is a bona fide requirement and has done a pretty good job of weeding out those who would get hurt because they are physically not capible of participating.  Each event's physical requirements match up pretty well to the ability to pass the assessment.  If a candidate does not pass the entire assessment, they are not allowed to participate because they are a safety risk.  If they fail on day one, we send them home.

There is merit to the suggestion of having candidates cleared medically to attend the course.  It is worth adding to the suggestions for the committee that plans CCOC.

During the course are SOWTs discussed or is it geared soley at CCTs? 

SWOT's are mentioned as part of the AFSOC community that CCT's and STO's work with.  The course is designed as an orientation to Combat Control and Special Tactics Officer career fields.  There is a lot of overlap for the training, but it is primarily about the CCT's and STO's.
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Spartan
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Posts: 129
Unit: NCR-MN-131

« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 09:09:59 PM »

Curious, why after 5 years is this still not a NCSA?  Who sponsors this activitiy?

I believe it is considered a "unit" activity?

You are correct.  CCOC is still considered a unit activity run by NC-007.
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Stonewall
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 09:40:11 PM »

I just want to say that I'm proud of whomever created CCOC. I think I know who had a hand in it, but not sure if he created it.

CCOC is right up there with some of the badassery of the 80s where things like AGOS and Drummond Island were unit activities but widely sought after.
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Spartan
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 02:24:40 AM »

I just want to say that I'm proud of whomever created CCOC. I think I know who had a hand in it, but not sure if he created it.

CCOC is right up there with some of the badassery of the 80s where things like AGOS and Drummond Island were unit activities but widely sought after.

Lt Col Siemiet would be the primary source for creating CCOC. 

I realize that CAP does a lot of things differently now, but I wish there were more courses available for the "badassery" inclined.  In my opinion the challenge that such courses offer give participants the opportunity to discover a new limit within themselves that they previously did not know they could achieve.  In regard to the self esteem and self efficacy that comes from completing things that are hard and that one can fail at if they do not apply themselves completely is a good way to learn about one's self, both strengths and weaknesses.

I wish I could have gone to Drummond Island as a cadet.  From what I have heard, it was an experience not to be missed.
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Stonewall
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Posts: 3,834

« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 05:28:39 PM »

I mentioned AGOS, but it hasn't been mentioned on here that I know of.  It was a National Capital Wing thing for years.  AGOS (Air Ground Operations School) was created by some senior members (mostly former cadets) who were former military (SF, Infantry, and a retired AF CMSgt NOMAD (TACP) from Vietnam).  A 1 week course in the 80s that was a hybrid PJOC/Hawk/Survival type school that lasted for years.
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NIN
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The Independent Cadet Program Resource
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 08:14:47 PM »

Wish I could have gone to Drummond Island as a cadet.  From what I have heard, it was an experience not to be missed.

I did go to Drummond Island as a cadet. The very last year it was an "official" activity.

It was so much win that even 30 years later I can't believe it.
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Darin Ninness,
Lt Col, CAP
The content of this post is Copyright © 2011-2014 by Darin Ninness.  The right to reproduce the content of this post within CAP-Talk, for a quoted reply, by CAP-Talk users, is specifically granted. All other rights, including "Fair Use," are specifically reserved.
That Anonymous Guy
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Posts: 148

« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2013, 11:02:45 PM »

Wish I could have gone to Drummond Island as a cadet.  From what I have heard, it was an experience not to be missed.

I did go to Drummond Island as a cadet. The very last year it was an "official" activity.

It was so much win that even 30 years later I can't believe it.
What was Drummond Island?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2013, 02:36:33 AM »

Wish I could have gone to Drummond Island as a cadet.  From what I have heard, it was an experience not to be missed.


I did go to Drummond Island as a cadet. The very last year it was an "official" activity.

It was so much win that even 30 years later I can't believe it.
What was Drummond Island?


Go here, and then search for Drummond. The articles are best read in chronological order. They show up in a couple of different lists.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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NIN
VIP

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The Independent Cadet Program Resource
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2013, 07:34:14 AM »

Wish I could have gone to Drummond Island as a cadet.  From what I have heard, it was an experience not to be missed.


I did go to Drummond Island as a cadet. The very last year it was an "official" activity.

It was so much win that even 30 years later I can't believe it.
What was Drummond Island?


Go here, and then search for Drummond. The articles are best read in chronological order. They show up in a couple of different lists.



Actually, start here:

http://www.cadetstuff.org/2012/09/

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Darin Ninness,
Lt Col, CAP
The content of this post is Copyright © 2011-2014 by Darin Ninness.  The right to reproduce the content of this post within CAP-Talk, for a quoted reply, by CAP-Talk users, is specifically granted. All other rights, including "Fair Use," are specifically reserved.
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