Improved Golf Shirt

[Storm Chaser]

Not trying to create controversy here; after all, CAPM 39-1 is specific on some things and vague on others. Table 4-4 states the following:

          There are three golf shirts approved for wear. A dark blue knit shirt with
          embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and
            aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast; a dark blue knit shirt
          with embroidered seal on the right breast, without the name or rating on left
          breast; and a dark blue knit shirt with the CAP seal screen printed in white
          lettering on left breast. (emphasis mine)

My interpretation of this (I realize now that I shouldn't have made an absolute statement) has always been that you either wear the shirt with aeronautical rating or specialty badge and name or the shirt without name or rating. I can see how the description in Table 4-4 can be interpreted differently. Vanguard, who although has no regulatory authority within CAP is the official supplier of CAP uniforms, uses "First & Last Name" in the name field (just as the picture example in Figure 4-3). It also allows for the use of duty titles instead of insignias. That's not specifically approved in CAPM 39-1 (that I can find), but it doesn't seem that NHQ has prevented them from using them on the approved Golf Shirt.

As a point of reference, CAPM 39-1 states in many places (Figure 2-17, Note 4; Figure 2-18, Note 4; Figure 4-6, Note 3) that "only last name will be used" when it needs to be specific about the use of the last name only (i.e. BDUs). On the other hand, it uses just "name" when talking about the flight suit name patch (Figure 2-19, Note 2; Figure 4-4, Note 2). Those do use both first and last name (even though not specified as such) just as those worn in the U.S. Air Force. Base on this, I can conclude that when only name is used, it refers to both first and last name and that when only last name is required, it is clearly stated as such.

In another related statement, CAPM 39-1 clarifies that if the person has "no aeronautical rating, a title such as "Mission Scanner" may be used" on the flight suit name patch. This may be acceptable with the Golf Shirt as well (although no specified) since Vanguard is doing it.

[Garibaldi]

someone quick! come up with a badge that has an aero rating on it with "Hi! My name is _______" on it!

[Blues Brother]

wow,  these uniform issues are about as clear as mud.   yes I know 39-1 exists, but it seems its subject to personal opinion, interpretation and numerous other variables.   

[Eclipse]

Not trying to create controversy here; after all, CAPM 39-1 is specific on some things and vague on others. Table 4-4 states the following:

          There are three golf shirts approved for wear. A dark blue knit shirt with
          embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and
            aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast; a dark blue knit shirt
          with embroidered seal on the right breast, without the name or rating on left
          breast; and a dark blue knit shirt with the CAP seal screen printed in white
          lettering on left breast. (emphasis mine)

My interpretation of this (I realize now that I shouldn't have made an absolute statement) has always been that you either wear the shirt with aeronautical rating or specialty badge and name or the shirt without name or rating. I can see how the description in Table 4-4 can be interpreted differently. Vanguard, who although has no regulatory authority within CAP is the official supplier of CAP uniforms, uses "First & Last Name" in the name field (just as the picture example in Figure 4-3). It also allows for the use of duty titles instead of insignias. That's not specifically approved in CAPM 39-1 (that I can find), but it doesn't seem that NHQ has prevented them from using them on the approved Golf Shirt.

As a point of reference, CAPM 39-1 states in many places (Figure 2-17, Note 4; Figure 2-18, Note 4; Figure 4-6, Note 3) that "only last name will be used" when it needs to be specific about the use of the last name only (i.e. BDUs). On the other hand, it uses just "name" when talking about the flight suit name patch (Figure 2-19, Note 2; Figure 4-4, Note 2). Those do use both first and last name (even though not specified as such) just as those worn in the U.S. Air Force. Base on this, I can conclude that when only name is used, it refers to both first and last name and that when only last name is required, it is clearly stated as such.

In another related statement, CAPM 39-1 clarifies that if the person has "no aeronautical rating, a title such as "Mission Scanner" may be used" on the flight suit name patch. This may be acceptable with the Golf Shirt as well (although no specified) since Vanguard is doing it.

The current 39-1 predates Vanguard as a CAP supplier - they had no say in the configuration of the shirts.  The photos in 39-1 depict bookstore or CAPMart vintage shirts.  Also, VG does and sells a lot of things which are not supported by the regs.

You can't require something on the shirt that members don't have, and why would CAP restrict people without ratings from wearing a golf shirt with their name on it?  Golf shirts aren't

[Brad]

wow,  these uniform issues are about as clear as mud.   yes I know 39-1 exists, but it seems its subject to personal opinion, interpretation and numerous other variables.

Congratulations, you have just passed your Tech rating for the Uniform Specialty Track!

Now, after 6 months, 3 years, or 4 decades depending on which pamphlet you read or gung-ho cadet or crusty senior member you talk to, you will be eligible to wear the coveted pink beret!

...but only while in the dining facilities at HMRS and only on Tuesdays.

[BillB]

Brad, you missed ICL #1 and #3. pink barets are no longer authorized on Tuesdays, changed to Thursdays. And the 2nd ICL authorized the pink beret only for cadets under five foot six inches without combat boots.

[Blues Brother]

Brad, you missed ICL #1 and #3. pink barets are no longer authorized on Tuesdays, changed to Thursdays. And the 2nd ICL authorized the pink beret only for cadets under five foot six inches without combat boots.

I get it,  its the same but only different. 

[Eclipse]

The term, gentlemen, is "roseate".  See CAPR OU812.

"Pink?"  Seriously, does no one complete level I anymore?

[Cool Mace]

The term, gentlemen, is "roseate".  See CAPR OU812.

"Pink?"  Seriously, does no one complete level I anymore?

What's level I? 

[VNY]

Brad, you missed ICL #1 and #3. pink barets are no longer authorized on Tuesdays, changed to Thursdays. And the 2nd ICL authorized the pink beret only for cadets under five foot six inches without combat boots.

FIZZBIN!

Anyway - I don't think the problem is really 39-1.  Mediocre it may be, but this topic touches on what I think is the real issue - the huge number of "uniforms" that do not even appear in 39-1.

Regions, Wings, groups and squadrons issue their own polo & T shirts, and every CAP activity attended by more than one person seems compelled to create their own activity uniform which not only is in defiance of 39-1 to begin with, it often mixes the new custom items with existing uniform components (all the activity shirts worn with BDU pants) and leaves the person with items often used well after the end of whatever event produced them.  I have for example seen incident commanders wearing region or national staff college polo shirts years after the event - on AF missions.

And how many official PAO photos have you seen where a cadet squadron is wearing their own T shirt with khaki shorts and athletic shoes at some event.  The first thing the CAWG Group 1 CAC did was design their own polo shirt uniform - and then stop wearing actual uniforms at all.

Before we can get people to follow 39-1 correctly - we have to get them to even try.

[Eclipse]

Regions, Wings, groups and squadrons issue their own polo & T shirts, and every CAP activity attended by more than one person seems compelled to create their own activity uniform which not only is in defiance of 39-1 to begin with, it often mixes the new custom items with existing uniform components (all the activity shirts worn with BDU pants) and leaves the person with items often used well after the end of whatever event produced them.  I have for example seen incident commanders wearing region or national staff college polo shirts years after the event - on AF missions.

And how many official PAO photos have you seen where a cadet squadron is wearing their own T shirt with khaki shorts and athletic shoes at some event.  The first thing the CAWG Group 1 CAC did was design their own polo shirt uniform - and then stop wearing actual uniforms at all.

None of this is allowed. 

Let's not confuse people who ignore 39-1 and make up their own rules with people who are confused because it hasn't been updated in 7 years.

[Flying Pig]

One of the funniest questions I ever got from a cop on a large CAWG CD mission... "Why do you guys wear purple polo shirts?"  :clap:

[Blues Brother]

One of the funniest questions I ever got from a cop on a large CAWG CD mission... "Why do you guys wear purple polo shirts?"  :clap:

You should have said because I am in the Globo Gym Purple Cobras.  LOL

[JROB]

Badges? I don't have to show you no stinkin badges!!!

As stated before badges are optional. I have 5 that I could've chosen from: my Observer wings, Master GT badge, IC badge, CP badge, Senior ES badge. As far as my name when I wear my BDUs or blues they only have my last name, the only thing that has my first name is my flight suit.

[VNY]

One of the funniest questions I ever got from a cop on a large CAWG CD mission... "Why do you guys wear purple polo shirts?"  :clap:

At some point in the past CAWG had their own uniform for flying CD missions that intentionally did not look like a uniform for reasons I won't get into here.  My understanding was that it was maroon.

I actually have two of the CAWG purple ones.  They are pretty much the same as the current screen printed shirt except for the color, which makes me wonder why they existed at all.

[Майор Хаткевич]

One of the funniest questions I ever got from a cop on a large CAWG CD mission... "Why do you guys wear purple polo shirts?"  :clap:

At some point in the past CAWG had their own uniform for flying CD missions that intentionally did not look like a uniform for reasons I won't get into here.  My understanding was that it was maroon.

The CAP painted planes were also Maroon?

[a2capt]

[size=78%]The CAP painted planes were also Maroon?[/size]

The aircraft in that era were painted -whatever- they were when they were bought.


CAP would have members, whoever, identify potential aircraft for purchase and just do that. This being the void in Cessna's manufacturing history.

[Flying Pig]

One of the funniest questions I ever got from a cop on a large CAWG CD mission... "Why do you guys wear purple polo shirts?"  :clap:

At some point in the past CAWG had their own uniform for flying CD missions that intentionally did not look like a uniform for reasons I won't get into here. 

I dont think its a secret why...........  However, CD is actually a very public program.  Publicized, recruited for, heck, its even on the web sites.  When I was first getting into CD (I was already an LE pilot) I was talking to a member who was involved in it.  We were outside, in a fairly rural area, and I was asking about the program because I had applied.  The member literally looked up at the sky for a brief second, looked around and said "This isnt something we discuss outside"     i sorta chuckled and said "Ya..OK"

As far as the purple shirts, the guys asking me were referring to the easily fading blue polos that look purple after a few washes. 

[JeffDG]

CD is also the one program we exclude members from as a class of members, regardless of their skills or qualifications.

[Flying Pig]

Yes it can be interesting that a member can be qualified to be in CAP but not be qualified to be in CD.  Really, its not an odd concept by far. Look at the military. Besides, its not CAP who decides. Anyone can apply to CD. But its not up to CAP who gets cleared. That, I believe falls to the USFS and the DEA.