Changing Senior Member Grade Insignias?

[Garibaldi]

We HAD a distinctive grade structure, uniform, and insignia back in the old days. It was wayyyyyyy different than the one we have now, and that decision, to put our insignia more in line with the Air Force's was a long and arduous process. Why? Progress. Tradition. Made more sense. CAP and the Air Force have tried to make things more distinct for CAP as recently as the 1990s, with the maroon epaulet sleeves and the silver sleeve braid, but in the end, tradition and common sense won out.

Don't F with Progress.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We HAD a distinctive grade structure, uniform, and insignia back in the old days. It was wayyyyyyy different than the one we have now, and that decision, to put our insignia more in line with the Air Force's was a long and arduous process. Why? Progress. Tradition. Made more sense. CAP and the Air Force have tried to make things more distinct for CAP as recently as the 1990s, with the maroon epaulet sleeves and the silver sleeve braid, but in the end, tradition and common sense won out.

Don't F with Progress.

The maroon epaulette sleeves ("berry boards") were a punitive measure handed down from the Air Force.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So I guess no one on CAPTALK can make a proposal and an adult conversation can take place

Someone just farted again.

[ColonelJack]

So I guess no one on CAPTALK can make a proposal and an adult conversation can take place

I guess we're all "considering the source."

Since we are all civilians a unique grade structure in my opinion would be easy to implement and for minimal cost the cadet officer ranks being painted gold (in lieu of silver) would work very well.

But you haven't offered a reason for creating such a unique grade structure.  Why would we do this?  What purpose would it serve? 

Now if you disagree, and offer your logical opinion as to why we shouldn't change to a CAP unique grade structure that's your opinion.

And this foolishness about creating a CAP-unique grade structure is your opinion ... one that, I think you've noticed, NO ONE shares.

One never knows what will happen with Civil Air Patrol uniforms in the future :angel:

Sigh ... you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think.

Jack

[AngelWings]

Please, for the love of god, avoid posting on this topic and ALL topics RM posts about uniforms. I am 100% positive that he posts stuff like this to get a laugh. Ever watch Betty Whites Off Their Rockers? You know, where the senior citizens prank all of the young people? Yeah, same concept.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Please, for the love of god, avoid posting on this topic and ALL topics RM posts about uniforms. I am 100% positive that he posts stuff like this to get a laugh. Ever watch Betty Whites Off Their Rockers? You know, where the senior citizens prank all of the young people? Yeah, same concept.

whoa... What channel night and time?

[AngelWings]

Please, for the love of god, avoid posting on this topic and ALL topics RM posts about uniforms. I am 100% positive that he posts stuff like this to get a laugh. Ever watch Betty Whites Off Their Rockers? You know, where the senior citizens prank all of the young people? Yeah, same concept.

whoa... What channel night and time?

It's on NBC. I recorded it a few months ago though. You can watch on Hulu (for free if you do the 2 week free test like I did).

[docbiochem33]

There is no way I would want to see the grade insignia changed.
   I was out when CAP had the Maroon epaulets, but do remember seeing them.  My brother was in and he said that people from the Air Force and Air National Guard/ AF Reserves thought that they were some sort of Special Operations/ Training group when they were on the small airbase his unit met on.  He said they would spend more time explaining the "unusual" uniform items than anything.
  The way the uniform is now is okay, but they could make it a little more distinctive.  I am not sure how, but it would help if we did something.  Even with the BDU's I have been asked, "Are you in the Army or something?" 
  Leave the grade structure alone, just do something so that people can tell us apart from the AD/ Reserves when we are in Blues.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was out when CAP had the Maroon epaulets, but do remember seeing them.  My brother was in and he said that people from the Air Force and Air National Guard/ AF Reserves thought that they were some sort of Special Operations/ Training group when they were on the small airbase his unit met on.  He said they would spend more time explaining the "unusual" uniform items than anything.

Those were bloody awful.  As I stated earlier, those were a punitive measure from the AF in the early '90s, punishing the entire organisation for the acts of a few.

Prior to that, we had the same blue epaulettes that the AF had, with "CAP" embroidered on them.  We also had the same blue nameplate the cadets wear now, CAP cutouts on the lapels and metal grade insignia.

When the grey epaulettes came in 1995, I threw my "berry boards" out.  The grey epaulettes look worlds better, but unfortunately it set in train a mindset at CAP where "distinctive = grey."

I would gladly give up any and all camouflage utility uniform options to have those blue epaulettes/hard rank back.  I think we've been punished enough.

Oddly, it is now a lot of CAP members who wouldn't want to go back to that...mostly those who weren't in when we had them (I came in just after).

I remember remarks from AF personnel on how goofy the maroon epaulettes looked.  A former AFRES Chaplain told me it was silly to have taken the blue epaulettes/hard rank from us.  He said "I used to see CAP people all the time.  There were enough distinguishing marks on the uniforms to show CAP personnel."

It's now "governed" by a very nebulous instruction regarding "low-light/at-a-distance," which can mean anything you want it to.

We already have too much enough "distinctiveness" WRT the blue uniform...we don't need more.

[Angus]

Prior to that, we had the same blue epaulettes that the AF had, with "CAP" embroidered on them.  We also had the same blue nameplate the cadets wear now, CAP cutouts on the lapels and metal grade insignia.

.
[/quote]

I had heard about the epaulettes, but never the blue name plate and metal grade.  That was way before my time.  Would I like to see that again for the "tradition" of it yes.  But for practicality no, we've had a lot of uniform issues recently and the only changes I think we need now are those that need to be changed.

[docbiochem33]

  I heard about the bad actions of a few.  Michigan Wing had encampment at Camp Grayling one year and 2 CAP officers picked out an Army Private and were trying to make him salute them.  Unfortunetly, the privates commander got involved and told them and several other people that his people did not have to salute CAP members.  The private then saluted them each time they walked by with the good old one finger salute.

  I was in a CAP unit on a small airbase and one of the senior members was bragging how he flew into a SAC base with nothing more than his velcro nameplate on his flightsuit to show he was CAP.  He even went as far as removing the hat device from his flight cap and putting regular grade in its place.  Another member who was enlisted at the airbase put on his CAP officer's uniform and was trying to make people on the ase salute him.  He was dumb enough to brag about it too.  Unfortunetly for him when the tower was given an E-8 slot he was mad he was not selected for the position and was told he would never make it past his current E-7.   

  There were ways of punishing some members if they were on AD, but others that walked around like a real officer it was hard to punish them at the time.  I have onl heard of two people being told that they could not return to the airbase my old unit was on and it had nothing to do with CAP, but their actions as employees of the local airport and one as a volunteer on base.

[Critical AOA]

I do not see a need for distinctive grade insignia for CAP officers as the grade insignia for officers in the armed forces are not distinctive from one another to any major degree.   If a Captain in the Air Force can wear the same insignia as a Captain in the Army or Marines or a Lieutenant in the Navy or CG, why would CAP be any different?  Heck, Captains in police departments wear the same type captain bars. 

While I would personally prefer to wear a CAP distinctive uniform rather than an AF uniform, I do not see a need to make grade insignia distinctive.  There is no logic to it. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I think one item would be enough to add distinction to our blues http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-uniform-accessories-seal-enameled-p-13759.html.
Worn on the right side under the name plate, this should be large and distinctive enough to allow blue epaulets.  This is a large item that has our name, crest, and that we are the auxiliary. This alone should be able to qualify for low light considering it is highly reflective as well.

[Angus]

I think one item would be enough to add distinction to our blues http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-uniform-accessories-seal-enameled-p-13759.html.
Worn on the right side under the name plate, this should be large and distinctive enough to allow blue epaulets.  This is a large item that has our name, crest, and that we are the auxiliary. This alone should be able to qualify for low light considering it is highly reflective as well.

The link isn't working.  Can you insert the image directly?

[vento]

I think one item would be enough to add distinction to our blues http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-uniform-accessories-seal-enameled-p-13759.html.
Worn on the right side under the name plate, this should be large and distinctive enough to allow blue epaulets.  This is a large item that has our name, crest, and that we are the auxiliary. This alone should be able to qualify for low light considering it is highly reflective as well.

The link isn't working.  Can you insert the image directly?

Just remove the period at the end.
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-uniform-accessories-seal-enameled-p-13759.html

[a2capt]

I think one item would be enough to add distinction to our blues http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-uniform-accessories-seal-enameled-p-13759.html
Worn on the right side under the name plate, this should be large and distinctive enough to allow blue epaulets.  This is a large item that has our name, crest, and that we are the auxiliary. This alone should be able to qualify for low light considering it is highly reflective as well.

Take the period off the end.. (quoted one now works)

[Angus]

Didn't notice the last period was coming up as part of the address. 

No onto adding that to our current blues I'd have to say no.  It only (and just barily) looks good on the mess dress. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Good ideas with the enamelled crest (worn like a "cookie"), and I'd add the CAP-crest buttons, and go back to the CAP cutouts for everyone, and use the silver nameplate that was authorised for the CSU.

Good ideas that will never. ever happen.  The people who could make it happen would be the most resistant to it - and I'm not talking about the Air Force side, I'm talking about the CAP side.

Ever since the berry boards days there's been a "status quo" approach (witness the demise of the CSU).

[Angus]

Good ideas with the enamelled crest (worn like a "cookie"), and I'd add the CAP-crest buttons, and go back to the CAP cutouts for everyone, and use the silver nameplate that was authorised for the CSU.

Good ideas that will never. ever happen.  The people who could make it happen would be the most resistant to it - and I'm not talking about the Air Force side, I'm talking about the CAP side.

Ever since the berry boards days there's been a "status quo" approach (witness the demise of the CSU).

IMHO the CSU was in theory a good uniform but bad contructed and implimented.  If it had gone to the AF for review we might still have it albeit with a few allterations. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

IMHO the CSU was in theory a good uniform but bad contructed and implimented.  If it had gone to the AF for review we might still have it albeit with a few allterations.

It was reviewed by the AF.

They told CAP to make some changes to it, like removing hard rank from the flight cap and using "CAP" instead of "U.S." on the lapels.

Other than that, they publicly voiced no objections.

It was CAP, not the AF, who killed the CSU, for reasons unknown.  I have hypotheses, but I won't post them here because I have before.