life saving ribbon

[brisblankets]

So today I was lookin out my window, I live on an airport, and I see an airplane crash on take off, we, me and one of my parents friends,  ran out, I called 911 and did the original medical exam, he was unconcious in an inverted aircraft drowning while knocked out, we all lifted the airplane up enough and yelled him awake, he undid his seat belt and walked away, he was unable to make scentences for a few minutes. In other words, would this be a qualifying situstion for a life saving ribbon?

Thanks!

[jimmydeanno]

So today I was lookin out my window, I live on an airport, and I see an airplane crash on take off, we, me and one of my parents friends,  ran out, I called 911 and did the original medical exam, he was unconcious in an inverted aircraft drowning while knocked out, we all lifted the airplane up enough and yelled him awake, he undid his seat belt and walked away, he was unable to make scentences for a few minutes. In other words, would this be a qualifying situstion for a life saving ribbon?

Thanks!

Criteria for the award:

h. Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving. Awarded to members who save a human life, but do not meet the criteria for the Bronze or Silver Medal of Valor.

We can't determine if you meet the criteria from where we are.  It would be something that your chain of command would have to determine after examining the facts of the incident. 

There is a possibility that your actions may, but I'm not going to say "yes" as I'm not in a position to say so.

[JayT]

So today I was lookin out my window, I live on an airport, and I see an airplane crash on take off, we, me and one of my parents friends,  ran out, I called 911 and did the original medical exam, he was unconcious in an inverted aircraft drowning while knocked out, we all lifted the airplane up enough and yelled him awake, he undid his seat belt and walked away, he was unable to make scentences for a few minutes. In other words, would this be a qualifying situstion for a life saving ribbon?

Thanks!

You didn't save his life. Also, did you preform a cervical spine exam? Clear him via NEXUS criteria? Sounds like a possible concussion.

[SarDragon]

You should really be handling this through your chain of command, and not on here.

[brisblankets]

Sorry gentle men, I was just curious as to if I should even bring it up to my squadron commander... Wanted to know the facts. Thank you.

[AngelWings]

Sorry gentle men, I was just curious as to if I should even bring it up to my squadron commander... Wanted to know the facts. Thank you.

Make sure you bring it up to him. Do NOT let anyone discourage you.

[jimmydeanno]

Sorry gentle men, I was just curious as to if I should even bring it up to my squadron commander... Wanted to know the facts. Thank you.

There is no problem with you bringing it up, the worst that happens is someone tells you "Sorry, it doesn't qualify."  We just can't speculate as to whether you are eligible for the award as we are third party observers, at best.  Your chain of command is going to be better able to get both sides of the story and better determine if your actions warrant the ribbon.

At the very least, I'm sure that the pilot is grateful for your help.

[Woodsy]

Award or not...  Good work!!! 

I also had an incident today on my way home from a SAREX...  Bad 4 car accident, missed my truck by about 3 inches...  Pulled off and was on scene within 20 seconds and rendered aid for 10 or 15 mins (funny how you lose track of time in such situations) until rescue arrived.  Victim had head and neck trauma and lot's of bleeding.  Ripped off my BDU shirt and used it to apply pressure to the bleeding and stabilized her neck, kept her calm and still.  BDU's had to go in a bio-hazard bag due to blood...  Driver (husband)  and a 3rd passenger were freaking out so had to calm them down and prevent them from trying to pull her out of the car as she needed to be still due to neck trauma till the pro's got there. 

Hopeful the victim will survive, but think she will have some serious damage.  She was unable to move her arms or legs and while she was somewhat responsive, was in a daze and didn't know what had happened. 

This is my first time in such a situation.  Looking back, I am kind of surprised at how calm, cool and collected I was.  I guess the first aid and first responder training I got through CAP paid off.  I will admit that once I transferred care to EMS and was talking to highway patrol officers I had a heck of a case of the shakes. 

[Extremepredjudice]

Dang sir, kinda glad I didn't go.

Need another BDU blouse? I have a few kicking around...

[spacecommand]

You said "drowning", you mean the aircraft had crashed into water and because the aircraft was upside down with the pilot inside, by lifting up the aircraft you preventing him from drowning in the water?

[Woodsy]

Dang sir, kinda glad I didn't go.

Need another BDU blouse? I have a few kicking around...

Haha, I think we may have just a slight size difference. I'm really not worried about it.  I very rarely wear BDU's.  I'll pick one up when I have a need. 

[James Shaw]

First of all great job to the both  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

A couple of suggestions for both about their descriptions:

1) Write down or record the information as soon as possible. This could be done via video for the best result. You need to describe what you were doing before, leading up to, during, and after and include as much detail as possible. This will help you recall the info at a later time. We humans have a tendency to forget the small details.

2) It will sound kind sick but you need to be as detailed about the conditions as possible. This will help you break down the events and trigger what you did in response.

3) Create a timeline of what happend down to the second if possible. When the COC looks at this type of thing they have to be able to gauge and envision the situation when they are considering any type of recognition.

4) Watch or listen to the recording and then stop it to write something down that you may have thought about whille listening to it. Go through it atleast three times before any kind of submission.

5) Have a friend or someone else listen to you read about it and get feedback. When these things go through the discussion process you want to provide as much accurate info as possible. If the event seems confusing it can make the difference between it being turned down or going to the next level.

6) Get witness statements if possible and get as many as you can or just have them validate what you have written down. Get their contact info because it may be needed at a later time.

7) Dont "ask others" about what they think about what you should do and try not to discuss to much until you have it recorded. This will help keep you from putting things in the report that you think may have occured based on others input. The more factual the better and you want to make sure that the witnesses remember similar occurences. You also take into consideration that people will have different views but they should not be to far from eachother.


Last of all: Continue the good work and thanks for being a part of CAP.

[Flying Pig]

You said "drowning", you mean the aircraft had crashed into water and because the aircraft was upside down with the pilot inside, by lifting up the aircraft you preventing him from drowning in the water?

Yeah, thats what I picked up too.  Brisblankets.  You need to notify you Sq CC, who will/should then start his own investigation, interview witnesses, etc etc.  There is just to much detail needed here for all of us to banter back and forth about what may or may not have happened.  At any rate, you would have earned possibly a commanders comm or CAP achievement medal for placing yourself in harms way.  Although planes dont necessarily explode, there are dangers.  Good for you for responding and assisting. Cool that you live at an airport too 

[arajca]

In both instances described, follow up with medical or fire personnel to if you made a difference. ER docs, in my experience, are happy to write brief letters commending bystanders for taking actions that made a positive difference. A letter from the attending ER doc saying your actions made the difference between life and death makes the Certificate of Lifesaving (official name) pretty much a done deal. That being said, you need to have the CAPF 120 submitted within 120 days two years of the act, but sooner is better.

correct time frame

[Private Investigator]

That being said, you need to have the CAPF 120 submitted within 120 days of the act, but sooner is better.

I thought it was within two years. (CAPR 39-3 Para 5)

Both incidents should be mentioned to their chain of command and to somebody who is reliable. More than once I heard a story involving a CAP member that did something really great but their Squadron Commander thought it did not deserve any recognition so I would put them in for it and the Wing would usually send it on.

Good work people   :clap:

[SJFedor]

So today I was lookin out my window, I live on an airport, and I see an airplane crash on take off, we, me and one of my parents friends,  ran out, I called 911 and did the original medical exam, he was unconcious in an inverted aircraft drowning while knocked out, we all lifted the airplane up enough and yelled him awake, he undid his seat belt and walked away, he was unable to make scentences for a few minutes. In other words, would this be a qualifying situstion for a life saving ribbon?

Thanks!

You didn't save his life. Also, did you preform a cervical spine exam? Clear him via NEXUS criteria? Sounds like a possible concussion.

Significant MOI is automatic spinal immobilization criteria, and I would think an aircraft crash where it ended up upside down is significant. Plus a witnessed LOC, so he needed to be on a board and go to the big H regardless.

To the OP, what did your "original medical exam" consist of? Can't say that I've heard of such a thing. He was drowning? Did the plane overturn into water, or did he have an airway compromise (blood/vomit/etc)? 

What it boils down to is this: did the patient have an imminent life threat which you treated/addressed to the best of your abilities as a bystander and which directly contributed to the survival of said patient? Long story short, consult your chain of command, let them run it up the flagpole.

And, just as a request, I would use extreme caution in "lifting the airplane" or anything else up with someone still inside without proper cribbing and extrication training, even if he was inverted in water. It's a very quick way to get the patient, yourself, or someone else further injured or killed.

In both instances described, follow up with medical or fire personnel to if you made a difference. ER docs, in my experience, are happy to write brief letters commending bystanders for taking actions that made a positive difference. A letter from the attending ER doc saying your actions made the difference between life and death makes the Certificate of Lifesaving (official name) pretty much a done deal. That being said, you need to have the CAPF 120 submitted within 120 days two years of the act, but sooner is better.

correct time frame

He's going to have a very hard time getting a release of information from EMS or the receiving hospital, as he was only a bystander who provided initial first aid, and doesn't have a need to know as someone further involved in the care of the pt, nor for training/CQI purposes, all covered under the lovely HIPAA laws. JEMS has a rather nice summary of them, and although this pertains to MCI's, I think it's got some of the answers you may seek here as well. http://m.jems.com/www.jems.com/HIPAA-MCI

Other than that, strong work buddy. Not sure of your age, but if you found this thing really "floats your boat", I'd of course encourage you to look into careers in EMS. My first brush with a traumatic medial emergency happened when I was a C/A1C on the way to a meeting and witnessed a hellacious MVC with one person partially ejected. And a few months later, a decathalon that did a ground loop on landing. It definitely lit my fire.

[RiverAux]

Could probably get enough relevant information from the police report (all public) to support a recommendation.