GAO study on CAP

[Flying Pig]

Whether CAP owns the gear, or is still within the 15-day Walmart return policy is irrelevant.

Are we talking about the national footprint here or your AOR?  Because the scale of air ops you operate in is a lot different then most of the "real" world.

No, its very relevant.  Having your own equipment and being able to respond with no restrictions is what this is all about.  A specific piece of gear restricted to a certain location and mission doesnt help CAP.  How do you know the scale I operate in is different than most of the "real" world?  What information source did you get that from?  Ill toss out your line...... "Cite please".

[RiverAux]

I think Flying Pig is generally correct as to the big picture on the future use of CAP's aircraft in many HLS roles.  Satellites, National Guard drones and the fleet of light aircraft being built by DHS for its own use are going to edge us out of the picture a lot sooner than we thought.  Like it or not, they're going to have the best toys and are going to be looking to opportunities to justify buying them in the first place. 

Even now CAP is mostly relegated to taking photos for some dude's powerpoint presentation rather than providing data for immediate use.

Like it or not, CAP really should be focusing more on developing relationships with county officials since they're the ones likely to have missions that won't justify the high dollar response assets. 

That being said, there probably are some things that CAP can continue to do around the edges of HLS and hopefully the study will find a few that we're not already involved in.

[Eclipse]

Even now CAP is mostly relegated to taking photos for some dude's powerpoint presentation rather than providing data for immediate use.

Untrue, though the presentations should not be discounted, either.  Product is product.

Like it or not, CAP really should be focusing more on developing relationships with county officials since they're the ones likely to have missions that won't justify the high dollar response assets. 

Agree completely.

[Eclipse]

Whether CAP owns the gear, or is still within the 15-day Walmart return policy is irrelevant.

Are we talking about the national footprint here or your AOR?  Because the scale of air ops you operate in is a lot different then most of the "real" world.

No, its very relevant.  Having your own equipment and being able to respond with no restrictions is what this is all about.  A specific piece of gear restricted to a certain location and mission doesnt help CAP.  How do you know the scale I operate in is different than most of the "real" world?  What information source did you get that from?  Ill toss out your line...... "Cite please".

What should I cite?

The state you're from has services that alert people when the next high-speed expressway chase happens.  Mine, outside the major metro areas, is mostly rural and farm land.  The third largest metro area in the country has exactly two helicopters and no fixed wing, and that program is under constant budget pressure.

One of the largest inland shorelines in the country has no permanent CG base, and a single, remotely-located CG helicopter (which is being considered for shut down).

The state police have less airplanes than CAP does, and when you move South, where things are very dark at night, the available resources get even
thinner.  Small towns and counties with no budget for permanent aircraft, don't have budget for fancy contractors, either, especially when there's a "free" alternative.

We've also got a sprinkling of companies and 501c(3)s that buy a single aircraft, usually a helicopter,  with a lot of toys they haven't even turned on, who then try to market themselves as an ES resource.  And you know who they are constantly trying to partner with?  >US<  Because at the end of the day, these guys have so much capital dropped out for their toys that they can't afford gas to fly, and since they started their companies without getting customers first, and have no history, no one is interested in them.  In a lot of cases these are just GA pilots with the same dream of every other GA pilot - "to get paid to fly", which is fine, until your flying model requires you have the ICS background and support resources to actually get hired.

[lordmonar]

Yes...because Im sure I have an agenda.   Ill throw your BS flag right back.  Do you mean the two airplanes equipped with very specialized equipment with the very select CAP members that are allowed to participate?  Does CAP even own the equipment on those planes?  Green Flag is hardly an indicator of CAPs national footprint.

A.  I never said you had an agenda.
B.  Yes the THREE CAP aircraft with specialsed equipment with a very dedicated team THAT ANYONE CAN JOIN and particpate.....in fact there was recently (like in the last week) a call for applications for the program.
C.  CAP owns the aircraft but the USAF owns the sensors, radios, down link and all th support equipment.
D.  Yes GF is a "limited" foot print....and any full time DHS mission would also be limited in scope.  One must learn to craw before they can run.
E.  The GF missions have opened a lot of doors for CAP.  It has proved that CAP can in fact do thing that our customers thought could only be done my full time paid professionals.  We have more requests for our platform that we can currently support.

Like I said before.....getting a full time mission with a national customer will take a lot of dedication and a lot of work.....but GF proves that CAP can do it.

[lordmonar]

Whether CAP owns the gear, or is still within the 15-day Walmart return policy is irrelevant.

Are we talking about the national footprint here or your AOR?  Because the scale of air ops you operate in is a lot different then most of the "real" world.

No, its very relevant.  Having your own equipment and being able to respond with no restrictions is what this is all about.  A specific piece of gear restricted to a certain location and mission doesnt help CAP.  How do you know the scale I operate in is different than most of the "real" world?  What information source did you get that from?  Ill toss out your line...... "Cite please".

Well we have procedures in place to use the USAF GF equipment for non GF missions.  I was involved in the Grand Canyon search using the GF equipment.  We have used the GF equipment supprting the FEMA exercise last summer, we have used it for other NON GF USAF missions.
Who owns the equipment does have some bearing on the conversation....but with in the parameters of our MOU....we are free to use it on other missions.  This is no different then the over all CAP MOU...that puts USAF missions as a priority over any other mission requests....and that is for CAP owned equipment.

Yes if CAP had it's own gear....the of course we would more free to decide when and where we are going to use it.....but how many times have we been stalled by existing rules and regs that don't let us respond?  Posse commutatus (sp?) has tied our hands a lot more then the fact the USAF owns the sensor ball.

[lordmonar]

I think Flying Pig is generally correct as to the big picture on the future use of CAP's aircraft in many HLS roles.  Satellites, National Guard drones and the fleet of light aircraft being built by DHS for its own use are going to edge us out of the picture a lot sooner than we thought.  Like it or not, they're going to have the best toys and are going to be looking to opportunities to justify buying them in the first place. 

Even now CAP is mostly relegated to taking photos for some dude's powerpoint presentation rather than providing data for immediate use.

Like it or not, CAP really should be focusing more on developing relationships with county officials since they're the ones likely to have missions that won't justify the high dollar response assets. 

That being said, there probably are some things that CAP can continue to do around the edges of HLS and hopefully the study will find a few that we're not already involved in.

I agree that CAP at the wing and unit level should be focusing on those local relationships.  Regional and National should be looking for ways to help at the national level.....including working with BLM, NFS, DHS, DOD, FBI, CIA, and all those other alphabets agencies.  I think one of the goals of the GAO studies is to find out if it may be cheaper to send some of that money to CAP so we can get the cool toys instead of developiing in house capabilities.

I don't know.....but as I said.....with a little money, a lot of work and dedication we have proved that we can take on a limited full time mission from a government contractor and provide a service to the DoD for a lot cheaper.

There is no reason IMHO that we can't learn from this proven model and expand that to other missions.  With the caviats that I already stated.