Army gives up ACUs...AF next?

[Eclipse]

What "guys"?

All I see are a couple dudes in blue shirts with their hands out and some reporters taking their picture...

[Stonewall]

[PHall]

If anything, the ACU is a failure because you can't tell what anyone's grade is easily. Collar and sleeve insignia work. Looking at someone's chest doesn't. Failed to salute? Probably because you couldn't figure out what the soldier was easily or readily enough.

Doesn't seem to be a problem. I've never heard of anybody complaining about it.
Everybody in the Army pretty much knows to look at the chest for someone's grade.
And folks in the Air Force know to look at the chest when you're wearing the Gore-Tex parka.
It's simply not a problem. At least for anybody who has served in the past 10 years or so.

[LGM30GMCC]

If anything, the ACU is a failure because you can't tell what anyone's grade is easily. Collar and sleeve insignia work. Looking at someone's chest doesn't. Failed to salute? Probably because you couldn't figure out what the soldier was easily or readily enough.

Yeah...or you could look at their head. Unless they are in a helmet, in which case there's a good chance you aren't going to be worrying about a salute.


The more I read about people worrying about salutes in the Real Military the more my head spins.

I don't know how many salutes I give or receive in a given day, I really have bigger things to worry about. Only if it's missing and its screamingly obvious they were being careless/didn't care will I usually say anything. (Ex: I approached two LTs...and one of them looked right at me, is taller than me...and said 'Hey man, what's up.' He received a bit of a correction on the whole customs and courtesies thing at a missile wing.)

I've had airmen miss a salute because I turned a corner and by the time they could recognize there was suddenly a person there, avoid a collision, and render any kind of greetings we were shoulder to shoulder and passing fast. Usually there is a little bit of a flail and I will return a salute even if they hadn't managed to pop one. They make the effort and it's not a huge deal.

I've approached a Security Forces Lt Col early in the morning. In that level of lighting and where the sun was I couldn't clearly see his insignia until I was within about 3 feet of him. That's kinda the point of low visibility insignia on the uniform. The white on his beret just looked a bit like a blob. That blob was either the bird on their flash, or a Lt Col leaf. I tried to figure out what it was and once I did I saluted and greeted him and added 'Sorry sir, I couldn't quite tell your insignia until I got this close' He laughed and moved on with life.

Salutes are part of our life, but it isn't a ZOMG STOP ALL THE PRESSES WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO issue.

Back on topic...
I think it is a bit silly that all the services aren't in a common utility pattern/cut for field uniforms. On some level I think it's silly we don't have similar service uniforms as well, but hey, that isn't going to change for a very long time if ever. (Personally, I'd use the same cut/style, just change the color)

[RiverAux]

The Marine Corps has been putting the eagle, globe & anchor on its field uniforms since before WWII.  This is nothing new.  The Navy embeds a naval insignia into its blue digital pattern, too.

FYI, the new Coast Guard ODU has the USCG symbol incorporated into the fabric.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Back on topic...
I think it is a bit silly that all the services aren't in a common utility pattern/cut for field uniforms.

Agreed.

On some level I think it's silly we don't have similar service uniforms as well, but hey, that isn't going to change for a very long time if ever. (Personally, I'd use the same cut/style, just change the color)

That was tried in Canada in 1968...the Army, RCN and RCAF were folded into the "Canadian Armed Forces," and everyone lost their British-derived uniforms and wore a dark-green uniform.  The only way to tell a member's affiliation with "Force Mobile Command," "Maritime Command" or "Air Command" were cap and collar dogs.  "Air Command" lost its RAF-derived ranks but the "Maritime Command" stubbornly refused to give up their RN-derived ranks.

It did not go down well, to put it mildly...especially from former RCN and RCAF people.

Finally, the "naval element" and "air element" got distinctive uniforms back in the '80s, and last year they got their titles of RCN and RCAF back.

However, what you say is different to what they tried...they tried to "green" everyone, but even what you say would be met with a firestorm, especially from the Marines (give up the Dress Blues for a uniform that looks like the OTHER SERVICES?!).

And, of course, for CAP it would have to be grey.

[Bullitt]

Good for the Army! I am glad one of the branches has finally seen the light in that going "digital" has no function in the field whatsoever. I hope the Air Force follows suit as well. We in CAP have no need or use for the ABU other than to have the perceived "cool factor" of wearing what the AF wears. A set of ABU's can run close to $100 plus boots; a cost I feel is way to high for members.

[AngelWings]

Good for the Army! I am glad one of the branches has finally seen the light in that going "digital" has no function in the field whatsoever. I hope the Air Force follows suit as well. We in CAP have no need or use for the ABU other than to have the perceived "cool factor" of wearing what the AF wears. A set of ABU's can run close to $100 plus boots; a cost I feel is way to high for members.

Phase in period. And it is not about the cool factor, it is about the fact that the BDU's conceal us in our area of work whereas ABU's help us stick out while we get to keep our Air Force routes. If we wanted to look cool, we would all push to be the ABG-S special operations command style ABU's with the Massif ABS and the modified ABU pants, or multicam.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

If anything, the ACU is a failure because you can't tell what anyone's grade is easily. Collar and sleeve insignia work. Looking at someone's chest doesn't. Failed to salute? Probably because you couldn't figure out what the soldier was easily or readily enough.

Yeah...or you could look at their head. Unless they are in a helmet, in which case there's a good chance you aren't going to be worrying about a salute.

Very true. However, in my limited experience being around Army people (and mind you, there's a major Air Force installation that might as well be a joint and international base very close to me, which I often set foot on), they're coverless when they're in the ACU. You think I want to commit a faux pas? Of course not. Is it a huge deal? No, but it doesn't hurt to be conscientious.

I agree, especially in a time when costs are being cut and now we have the administration telling service personnel they need to pay up for health care, that service-specific uniforms are a little much. If there are specialized needs, fine, but to have work uniforms that are service-specific when many times, we're in a joint environment? Doesn't make sense to me. Especially if it means you might be seen because the guy next to you doesn't quite blend in.

[PHall]

Good for the Army! I am glad one of the branches has finally seen the light in that going "digital" has no function in the field whatsoever. I hope the Air Force follows suit as well. We in CAP have no need or use for the ABU other than to have the perceived "cool factor" of wearing what the AF wears. A set of ABU's can run close to $100 plus boots; a cost I feel is way to high for members.

I don't know where you priced ABU's at, but it's a lot less if you go to clothing sales on base.
Sounds like you got your prices from one of the internet places that overcharge for inferior quality crap.

[lordmonar]

I still have not confirmed that the Army is in fact giving up the ACUs.

[Eclipse]

Well, they've been officially testing new patterns since last Oct.: http://peosoldier.armylive.dodlive.mil/2012/01/10/for-immediate-release-award-of-phase-iv-camouflage-uniform-contracts/

The Army formally announced it was looking for a replacement last January:
http://www.army.mil/article/71921/Army_one_step_closer_to_replacement_of_ACU_pattern/

And this article has follow up comments to the same effect:
http://defense.aol.com/2012/06/25/army-drops-universal-camouflage-after-spending-billions/

[lordmonar]

Thanks...

The OP and the one artilce gave the impression that the change was imminant.
They may still be years away before they convert....if they decide to convert at all.  At this point they are looking at options.

[abdsp51]

Good for the Army! I am glad one of the branches has finally seen the light in that going "digital" has no function in the field whatsoever. I hope the Air Force follows suit as well. We in CAP have no need or use for the ABU other than to have the perceived "cool factor" of wearing what the AF wears. A set of ABU's can run close to $100 plus boots; a cost I feel is way to high for members.

I don't know where you priced ABU's at, but it's a lot less if you go to clothing sales on base.
Sounds like you got your prices from one of the internet places that overcharge for inferior quality crap.

Actually that sounds about right when you consider the coat, pants, hat, t-shirts, belt, socks and that is not including the awful sage green boots. With the following break down:

ABU Trousers 41.01
ABU Coat       35.85
Hat                  5.55
Belt                 3.47
T- Shirts*      13.47
Socks*           6.21

Total             105.56

*comes in packs of three.

And these prices are straight from AAFES as you can see ABUS are twice the cost of BDUs and that is not even including boots. ANd it's not even taking into account for foul weather gear either. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

The only difference comes in the Trousers and Coat.

BDUs have always run $20-25, but as high as $30 from what I've seen in the last Decade.

[coudano]

BDUs have always run $20-25, but as high as $30 from what I've seen in the last Decade.

Well the price is going to go up on them as they become more rare.

[Майор Хаткевич]

BDUs have always run $20-25, but as high as $30 from what I've seen in the last Decade.

Well the price is going to go up on them as they become more rare.

Granted, but the point is that they aren't that much cheaper than ABUs.

[mwhitis]

Looks like they're looking to switch fully or partially to MultiCam:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/06/28/army-to-recommend-multicam-for-entire-force.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

[Major Carrales]

I've heard these "rumors" and "official rumors" about ABUs since at least 2007, sometimes from National Commanders at WING conferences, however, here I sit in 2012 with BDUs hanging in the closet.  'nuff said!

[Nolan Teel]

What about getting rid of the BDUs and going for something more relaxed... say... a polo shirt and maybe a pair of slacks...