Metal grade (rank) insignia on BDU uniforms

[av8tr1]

I've seen a few squadrons allow members to wear metal grade insignia on the BDU.  Usually these members have recently been promoted and it is given to the member by the squadron to wear until the CAP cloth insignia is available to the member.  I seen this done in at least two Wings.  In one case a senior member wore normal metal butter bars on his BDUs for over three months.  And was still wearing them despite my discussions with the squadron commander that it may be in violation of regulations until I left the squadron. 

I have always been of the understanding that this is not authorized and is a major violation of the regulations.  I think some former members have faced significant disciplinary action over the wear of the metal insignia on the BDU.  However I am unable to find a specific regulation or policy letter that prohibits this. 

Can anyone cite a specific regulation or policy that prohibits the use of metal grade insignia on the BDU? 

[AngelWings]

The key to a regulation is that it sometimes does not prohibit something, but rather it prescribes something. If you cannot find it authorized then it isn't allowed for wear, which seems to be the case here. I've only seen sew on authorized in the regs, so I would tell you that is the only thing authorized for wear in this case.

Edit: Thought it'd be nice to say this forum taught me that and has been a huge help to me when dealing with similar cases.

[Eclipse]

Cadets below 2d Lt wear metal, above 2d Lt they wear full-color cloth.

Seniors are only authorized to wear full-color cloth, regardless of which uniform they wear.

Your cite is found in 39-1.  This has not changed in recent memory, except for wearing it on both collars.

[av8tr1]

There is a legal theory that goes something like "something not specifically prohibited is allowed".  I've had members use that argument on me.  Usually it's a request for me to show them in the regs where it is specifically prohibited.  So if nothing like that is in the regulations is there some catch all statement that says something to the effect of something not specifically authorized by 39-1 it is prohibited? 

[Eclipse]

Not specifically authorized is prohibited.

Most CAP and military regulations are written to exclude anything not discussed or allowed.  This has slipped a
bit in recent years because some people have to literally be told "don't do 'x' " before they will knock it off.

In this case, if metal grade were authorized, then there would be a full spec as to the where and how it was to be
affixed, etc.  Since that is absent, it is not an option.  Any members references to AFI's, or how "others do it" is irrelevant, since
their regulations are not applicable.

[a2capt]

But since it says "use this", that would preclude not "use that, too". It's fairly explicit.

39-1 does not say everything, nor does it not say everything. Does it say tie your shoes, button the shirt, or such?

If the regulation has to say everything, where do you stop? They already have enough problems keeping it up to date now. You want it to be worse?

[AngelWings]

There is a legal theory that goes something like "something not specifically prohibited is allowed".  I've had members use that argument on me.  Usually it's a request for me to show them in the regs where it is specifically prohibited.  So if nothing like that is in the regulations is there some catch all statement that says something to the effect of something not specifically authorized by 39-1 it is prohibited?

My personal arguement for attitudes like that is that they do no specifically pink boots for wear but they say only black boots are prescribed. Most of the wording does actually prohibit things, but does not specifically say they are prohibited.

a2capt beat me to it.

[av8tr1]

But since it says "use this", that would preclude not "use that, too". It's fairly explicit.

39-1 does not say everything, nor does it not say everything. Does it say tie your shoes, button the shirt, or such?

If the regulation has to say everything, where do you stop? They already have enough problems keeping it up to date now. You want it to be worse?

Not at all.  We just have some members who need to grow up and play by the rules before they ruin it for everyone.  I remember one woman (not flight crew) wearing not only a flight suit but also high heeled black boots (the Go-go type boots).  After a polite discussion with her she responded her boots met the regulation of "Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without perforated seam". 

We both knew it was unacceptable but she met the specific language of the regulation.  I am not a uniform nazi so I didn't push any further but I have concerns over some of our members who push the envelope on regulations.  It's come up again in my squadron and again i've been asked to produce a specific regulation prohibiting it or shut up about it.  Since we meet on a active military base I think it's important we present the best face forward. 

[Eclipse]

Anyone who is asking you to prove the negative doesn't understand the paramilitary regulation structure.

They need to prove the "can".

[SARDOC]

COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY.  Any variation from this publication is not authorized.  Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear.   

[abdsp51]

Or just wait for an active uniform nazi who knows CAPM39-1 on the yard to correct them.  During SLS I saw a number of violations and just had to shake my head.

[Sapper168]

  During SLS I saw a number of violations and just had to shake my head.

How can you violate a polo shirt and grey pants?  Maybe That was just the class i went through....

[SARDOC]

How can you violate a polo shirt and grey pants?  Maybe That was just the class i went through....

You could wear sneakers and a brown belt with it.

[Eclipse]

I've seen...

Gray sweat pants.

The USAF waist jacket with grade insignia as a jacket, the BDU jacket, and several other "wrong" combos.

Bloused dress pants.

USAF flight cap.

[Extremepredjudice]

  During SLS I saw a number of violations and just had to shake my head.

How can you violate a polo shirt and grey pants?  Maybe That was just the class i went through....

You could wear it backwards. Or the pants on your head and the shirt on your legs. <-- Does that violate any regs?

You could spill so much bleach it dyes it white. HMMM... You could get a T-shirt that looks like a polo (like those tuxedo shirts). Or what SARDOC said, sneakers or a brown belt.

I can't think of any more ATM.

[abdsp51]

  During SLS I saw a number of violations and just had to shake my head.

How can you violate a polo shirt and grey pants?  Maybe That was just the class i went through....

Polo here for PD courses are verboten.  It was either blues or grey and white combos.

[commando1]

You actually went there...I guess there was an unwritten rule against meme's on captalk...

[Extremepredjudice]

You actually went there...I guess there was an unwritten rule against meme's on captalk...

http://quickmeme.com/meme/3p3mcw/

I never knew you couldn't use memes on captalk?

[tsrup]

You actually went there...I guess there was an unwritten rule against meme's on captalk...

http://quickmeme.com/meme/3p3mcw/

I never knew you couldn't use memes on captalk?

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3p3n21/



can we all agree that memes are appropriate for some boards, and this isn't necessarily one of them?

/threadjack

[Private Investigator]

  During SLS I saw a number of violations and just had to shake my head.

How can you violate a polo shirt and grey pants?  Maybe That was just the class i went through....

Polo here for PD courses are verboten.  It was either blues or grey and white combos.

I have seen CAP ribbons on a CAP polo shirt. Another indiviual looked real smart with his polo shirt, grey pants and USAF flight cap.   :clap: