ES/Ground Team can wear whatever in the field?

[johnnyb47]

I do find it interesting that the BDU (and BDU only) is called out in the G&UDF Training guide.
There is no provision for wear of the BBDU.
One could argue that they are interchangeable in the text but I have to wonder;
If mandatory wear is implied why would you require that I pack a uniform that doesn't fit me?
If it isn't specifically allowed then it is forbidden, right?

I'm in the BDU camp.... I'll wear mine to everything I can.
Just found that interesting.
I did find in the ES regs that ground team and UDF team members must be compliant with CAPR 77-1 as potential passengers in CAP CoV's during operations..... but then there is no requirement to wear a uniform as a passenger in a CoV (unless you're a passenger as part of participation in the cadet program.)

[Eclipse]

More places where the regulations are out of sync. 

The blue field uniform was introduced in 2002, and the last rev of the GT guide was 2004, but they did not update the test to reflect the
new option.  Technically the BBDU isn't even a "BDU" at all, at least not within our parlance.

As I recall, the sundown of wearing camo with no grade for those out of weight or grooming was 2003 or 2004, so during that may be part of the reason
it wasn't updated, but considering that all happened 10 years ago, things should have been fixed by now.  I'd agree it should just say "proper CAP uniform", etc., though I don't think many would argue that the intention is to require a field uniform in the field.

[av8tr1]

Stepping in here as I have intimate knowledge of this and I am involved in resolving the issue.  The source of this is a "very valued" member of WAWG.  And is highly experienced as a professional in EMS.  The points brought up for not wearing BDUs for safety have some validity.  We are working the issue to come to a resolution that both meets with regulations and the concerns expressed by the source of the uniform changes.  Wing is aware and working on a resolution.  And no one is facing any sort of punishment action as a result. 

Regarding the claims of WAWG not participating in WA SAR activities, nothing could be further from the truth. 

Per WA Law, RCW 47.68.380
Aerial search and rescue — Liability — Definition.   
(1) The aviation division of the department is responsible for the conduct and management of all aerial search and rescue within the state. This includes search and rescue efforts involving aircraft and airships. The division is also responsible for search and rescue activities involving electronic emergency signaling devices such as emergency locater transmitters (ELT's) and emergency position indicating radio beacons (EPIRB's).

So in the state of WA, all SAR activities are run by the state as they are in many states.  CAP reports to the state as a state managed asset on SAR activities (darn that whole states rights thing).  In point of fact, CAP provides most of the air assets used for SAR, the State Aviation Emergency Coordinator is a member of CAP and reports directly to the Wing commander when appropriate.  When appropriate the Wing commander reports to the State Aviation Emergency Coordinator.  No egos involved, just everyone doing what is appropriate to perform the tasks required. 

The WSDOT Aviation division spends a considerable amount of money training CAP resources to perform to standard.  We have training sponsored by the state every single weekend over the next three months.  The only requirement (per WA law) is that all members are fully qualified WSDOT Aviation Emergency Services Volunteers, which requires some specific training above and beyond the normal CAP qualifications.  I still report to missions in my CAP uniform and fly CAP aircraft when appropriate. 

[Brad]

What always gets me about threads along this vein is how BDU's aren't visible enough for safety standards in the field, we need to switch to bright orange, this is why CAWG has the bright orange Wing supplement, etc. etc.

How about just wear a safety vest, same as marshallers do?! Simple, effective, and no supplement is needed because CAP safety regs trump 39-1 and you can argue safety on the grounds of a ground team member wandering off and not being visible without the vest. It also makes the GT easier for the search victim to find.

[ol'fido]

What always gets me about threads along this vein is how BDU's aren't visible enough for safety standards in the field, we need to switch to bright orange, this is why CAWG has the bright orange Wing supplement, etc. etc.

How about just wear a safety vest, same as marshallers do?! Simple, effective, and no supplement is needed because CAP safety regs trump 39-1 and you can argue safety on the grounds of a ground team member wandering off and not being visible without the vest. It also makes the GT easier for the search victim to find.

Brad,

I wish it were that simple. As has been pointed out, some states( most notably CA) do not feel that wearing a safety vest is adequate or they have a state mandated requirement for teams and individuals participating in ground SAR that usually includes specific clothing such as blaze orange shirts(CA).

CAP is in many places finding its way into the state"s EMA structures. In other states, CAP has managed to successfully intergrate with the state on ES responses and what we wear is acceptable to them. It is finding the balance between what is acceptable to the state(usually the ones in charge) and what fits within CAP's regulations and manuals that is problematic.

[lordmonar]

You know....I keep hearing that California "requires" the orange ES shirt for SAR teams......but I have yet to see anyone cite a law, regulation or memorandum from the state that so states.

I did a quick search for California Search and Rescue clothing and I can't seem to find any common uniform in any of the SAR teams.

If someone from CAWG could point me in the right direction.....I would appriciate it.

[PHall]

You know....I keep hearing that California "requires" the orange ES shirt for SAR teams......but I have yet to see anyone cite a law, regulation or memorandum from the state that so states.

I did a quick search for California Search and Rescue clothing and I can't seem to find any common uniform in any of the SAR teams.

If someone from CAWG could point me in the right direction.....I would appriciate it.

CalEMA is the agency in question. Good hunting.

[abdsp51]

I'll save you guys the headache.  It is not required by the state for SAR but is a best practices recommendation.  SAR in CA is the responsibilty of the county and the sheriff dictates the uniform.  It was explained that if the state required it then the state would have to fund it.  There are counties throughout the state that do not use the orange shirt.  All of my digging and calls made indicate this is a Civil Air Patrol CA Wg requirement but not a state EMA requirement. 

[PHall]

I'll save you guys the headache.  It is not required by the state for SAR but is a best practices recommendation.  SAR in CA is the responsibilty of the county and the sheriff dictates the uniform.  It was explained that if the state required it then the state would have to fund it.  There are counties throughout the state that do not use the orange shirt.  All of my digging and calls made indicate this is a Civil Air Patrol CA Wg requirement but not a state EMA requirement.

California Wing decided to make this a requirement to placate both CalEMA and the Sheriff Departments of a few counties.
It was made into a statewide requirement so there wouldn't a bunch of questions about do we wear it or not?

It seems to have worked so far...

[abdsp51]

Not arguing that point just saying it is not a CALEMA requirement nor state mandated.  The question was where to find it in writing that it was a state requirement and answer it's not.

[bosshawk]

To put this in some sort of perspective, recall that at the time that this uniform was dictated, both the Wing CC and the DO were active cops.  That may have led to the uniform dictation.

[abdsp51]

Sir, I wasn't a member when it was implemented.  A member asked for info on it and I did some homework, and basically the result the orange shirt is not a California state requirement for SAR teams.  SAR is a mission of the sheriff's department and the sheriff is the determining party for uniforms etc.  To say that this is a state requirement and state law is inaccurate.  If this is a county requirement and a Wg that's another.  I think it's just some miscommunication about it is all. 

[Eclipse]

So every other organization who assist the Sheriffs change their uniforms on that whim?

[abdsp51]

You're going to need to clarify that a little bit.

[bdolnick]

CAWG requires an Orange shirt with Blue BDU pants for Ground Team members while in the field. It is not authorized for wear at base.  Here is a link - http://cawg.cap.gov/html/Pubs/supps.htm - See the CAWG 39-1, a Supplement approved by NHQ.

[lordmonar]

CAWG requires an Orange shirt with Blue BDU pants for Ground Team members while in the field. It is not authorized for wear at base.  Here is a link - http://cawg.cap.gov/html/Pubs/supps.htm - See the CAWG 39-1, a Supplement approved by NHQ.

That supplement is just assinine!

CAWG ground teams must bring two uniforms to the mission base!  They have to change just before departing and just after returing from a mission!

I would accept the rule if they required aircrew to change just before their flight! 

[PHall]

CAWG requires an Orange shirt with Blue BDU pants for Ground Team members while in the field. It is not authorized for wear at base.  Here is a link - http://cawg.cap.gov/html/Pubs/supps.htm - See the CAWG 39-1, a Supplement approved by NHQ.

That supplement is just assinine!

CAWG ground teams must bring two uniforms to the mission base!  They have to change just before departing and just after returing from a mission!

I would accept the rule if they required aircrew to change just before their flight! 

Uh Pat, why do you even care?  Aren't you in Nevada Wing? Or are you just being a PITA because you can?

[lordmonar]

CAWG requires an Orange shirt with Blue BDU pants for Ground Team members while in the field. It is not authorized for wear at base.  Here is a link - http://cawg.cap.gov/html/Pubs/supps.htm - See the CAWG 39-1, a Supplement approved by NHQ.

That supplement is just assinine!

CAWG ground teams must bring two uniforms to the mission base!  They have to change just before departing and just after returing from a mission!

I would accept the rule if they required aircrew to change just before their flight! 

Uh Pat, why do you even care?  Aren't you in Nevada Wing? Or are you just being a PITA because you can?

Well this is the internet! 

[sarmed1]

Back to the original point: the only path to logic I see here is that cotton (which most of the BDU uniforms ot there are 50-100 percent) is the worst material out there as far as inuslation ability once it becomes wet.  So I can see thie "proffessionals" point there.  But ".....wear what ever you want...."  is not realy a suitable alternative.  Come on the military has been wearing cotton based uniforms for the past what 50-70 years.  As everyone here usually agrees outerwear need not be "military specific" to meet appropriate safety needs during incliment weather.... if if its 30 degrees out and all you have is a civilian coat you cant wear it...BDU only....silly,   and layering can still occur while remaining "military" in apperance. 
Outer wear: Woodland pattern gortex is readily available (a simple e-bay search showed about 2 pages of results jackets and pants)
Layering: underarmor, wool long underwear are all readily available. (39-1 even says white thermals can be worn visable under BDU's.  I have always been a fan of the 5 button wool military sweater.  In my younger army days we used to wear the field jacket liner under a BDU top in lieu of the field jacket too.
Boots:  ok always a hard one with CAP members ( cadets buy cheap and more to meet spit an polich guideline rather functional "field" guidelelnes) But they make gortex socks....bam instant water proofing for you.  If it really is true deep snow winter type ops wear your civilain snow boots, the world wont end...But that is a situational specific instance, not just everyday because it might be cold and wet today if we get a mission....

mk

[wuzafuzz]

CAWG requires an Orange shirt with Blue BDU pants for Ground Team members while in the field. It is not authorized for wear at base.  Here is a link - http://cawg.cap.gov/html/Pubs/supps.htm - See the CAWG 39-1, a Supplement approved by NHQ.

That supplement is just assinine!

CAWG ground teams must bring two uniforms to the mission base!  They have to change just before departing and just after returing from a mission!

I would accept the rule if they required aircrew to change just before their flight! 

I have no problem with the orange shirts.  In fact, I like them for ground teams.  But the rule requiring ground teams to bring two uniforms is ridiculous.  If they plan to spend their day at mission base then another uniform is indicated, but leave them alone if they are merely passing through for brief/debrief.  Granted, the absence of an absolute rule leaves a little room for folks to push the limits.  That's not a big problem if there is good leadership.

I care because I used to be in CAWG and might return someday.  Plus the same practice could spread to my current wing some day!