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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Group CC and Squadron CC term limits
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Author Topic: Group CC and Squadron CC term limits  (Read 17291 times)
RiverAux
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« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2012, 09:50:59 AM »

Well, I think most Wings don't have groups and for the most part the ones that do probably need them although I'm not sure Groups need to replicate ALL the available staff positions. 
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2012, 12:51:35 PM »

We could certainly reduce the number of positions in units.  A normal unit doesn't need a logistics officer, supply officer, transportation officer. 

Most units have one van, a small closet for some supplies, and a few radios.

It doesn't make sense to break that out into 3 positions when one will suffice.  You just end up with some really bored volunteers.  At the wing, it makes sense to have separate personnel for the job because of the scope of what they're responsible for.
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If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2012, 05:06:36 PM »

We could certainly reduce the number of positions in units.  A normal unit doesn't need a logistics officer, supply officer, transportation officer. 

Most units have one van, a small closet for some supplies, and a few radios.

It doesn't make sense to break that out into 3 positions when one will suffice.  You just end up with some really bored volunteers.  At the wing, it makes sense to have separate personnel for the job because of the scope of what they're responsible for.
I think you are missing the point.  Volunteers join and select functions/jobs that they think they would like to do -- no one should be forced to take on a job/function they don't want to do, it's just counterproductive to the organization.   So even though the individual might not have large dollar amounts/lots of equipment/supplies, it is still good training for them to learn and make that functional area operate effectively/efficiently.  When you start combining up positions, you start burdening the volunteers with more CAP administrative mumbo jumbo, and everyone has a point where it becomes an issue.   
RM   
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jeders
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« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2012, 05:13:09 PM »

We could certainly reduce the number of positions in units.  A normal unit doesn't need a logistics officer, supply officer, transportation officer. 

Most units have one no van, a small closet for some supplies, and a few radios.

It doesn't make sense to break that out into 3 positions when one will suffice.  You just end up with some really bored volunteers.  At the wing, it makes sense to have separate personnel for the job because of the scope of what they're responsible for.

FTFY.

All of the logistics position can absolutely be combined into one person in the average squadron. Additionally so can most of the ES/Ops positions. Even at the group and region level most positions can be done by one person. It's only at the wing level that you really need multiple people for these various positions.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2012, 07:10:45 PM »

You guys are only cutting down the number of positions a little.

Even if you cut the listed positions down to the bone...you are still looking at 20 or so positions/jobs that have to be done.

My squadorn has around 60 members, more then half of them cadets.  We don't have the man power to fill all the needed jobs and provide for adaquate assitants/depth with out double/tripple billeting.

My point was that the ideal that group/wing/regional/national staff should not be double billeted is not practical as well as being counter to the ideal that it is trying to solve.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
mrsbure
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« Reply #105 on: April 11, 2012, 01:11:46 PM »

I am a squadron commander at the end of my term limit. I do not have someone to take over for me at this time. And don't even think of putting that back on me, I have tried to find a successor even from other units senior members that live in my area. I have actually been laughed at and asked if I am crazy. This is a volunteer organization and forcing someone to take a job that they don't want and removing someone that is doing a good job is counterproductive. Would I step aside for a willing, qualified candidate? Absolutely, but does it make sense to close a squadron that is doing well because the squadron commander has reached their term limit and there is no one willing to take over? I do not feel all mighty and powerful as some have insinuated that squadron commanders become. I'm just here to volunteer my time and do the best job that I can for my squadron and the organization. I have no aspirations to move up in the organization so my next position will be at local squadron filling it whatever position they need me to fill.

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Eclipse
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« Reply #106 on: April 11, 2012, 02:51:27 PM »

Your statement above is part of the reason term limits are important - your members only value their membership to the point that
"some other guy" does all the work.  Sometimes the threat of losing the unit is enough to spur people on, sometimes not, but I would personally
not want to be leading something that is at constant risk of shutdown if I get a cold.

Training your replacement is a commander's (and staffer's) job, but if you've done your best in that regard, the real responsibility is on the desk of the
next higher HQ.  A unit without the ability to transition smoothly is failing its mission, if for no other reason than it is clearly undermanned.
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mrsbure
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« Reply #107 on: April 11, 2012, 03:07:52 PM »

Yes, I will agree that in my case I do most of the work but, if the squadron shuts down who really suffers? The cadets, who have no say. And being that I am from a cadet squadron, this will be the case. Shutting down a squadron because of a squadron commander having to leave do to a term limit is ridiculous. I could understand it if the squadron was not doing well but, this is not always the case.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #108 on: April 11, 2012, 03:14:18 PM »

Yes, I will agree that in my case I do most of the work but, if the squadron shuts down who really suffers? The cadets, who have no say. And being that I am from a cadet squadron, this will be the case. Shutting down a squadron because of a squadron commander having to leave do to a term limit is ridiculous. I could understand it if the squadron was not doing well but, this is not always the case.

What happens if you get sick, die, take up golf, or just want to try something new?  A sudden unexpected death is no better than a controlled one.

Those cadets all have family who should be holding up a corner, and who are trained and capable to take over should you no longer be around,
voluntarily or otherwise.  The lack of the expectation of progression, as well as "the other guy's got it" is what causes whole wings to grind to
slow stops because of long-term attrition.  Units plod on and "do what they do" until they "don't", and then people look up one day and ask
why a wing that used to have 100 units now has 30, or 5, or none.
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mrsbure
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« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2012, 03:32:39 PM »

I agree that the families should do more. I get a lot of drop offs and I try to change that every chance I get. In my opinion, there are bigger problems right now then having squadron commander term limits. If the purpose is to clean out the bad, the group commanders have that responsibility. If it is to give people a chance, I don't see that being an issue in my group. If it is to get new blood in the position, you have to have people that want to step up. I find most people don't have the time or don't want to take the time to make such a large committment. Is that right? Maybe not but it's a fact of life. Volunteerism only goes so far. This is not a paid promotion which should not make a difference but it does.
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A.Member
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« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2012, 10:54:04 PM »

... I find most people don't have the time or don't want to take the time to make such a large committment. Is that right? Maybe not but it's a fact of life. Volunteerism only goes so far. This is not a paid promotion which should not make a difference but it does.
Then perhaps CAP isn't a good for those people and they need to volunteer their efforts to an organization that doesn't need active participants - or just move them to patron status.  That too is a fact of life.  Volunteering is more than putting your name on a roster.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #111 on: April 12, 2012, 12:03:04 AM »

I have seen Wings and Groups actually send out job opening notices to all members stating that a Squadron or Group Commander position was opening and that applications were being solicited.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Eclipse
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« Reply #112 on: April 12, 2012, 12:42:20 AM »

I have seen Wings and Groups actually send out job opening notices to all members stating that a Squadron or Group Commander position was opening and that applications were being solicited.

Mine has done that for 5-6+ years. Anyone in the wing can apply for a command slot, and not all commanders come from within the
respective unit's ranks.
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Private Investigator
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« Reply #113 on: April 12, 2012, 09:33:52 AM »

I am a squadron commander at the end of my term limit. I do not have someone to take over for me at this time.

Do you have a Deputy Commander? #2 person suppose to take over from #1 person. That is why he/she is Deputy Commander.

A pet peeve when I was a Group Commander is the person who wants to be Deputy Commander forever but does not want to be responsible for a plane, equipment or finances. Tell your #2, "MAN UP." Problem solved ....
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davedove
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« Reply #114 on: April 12, 2012, 11:31:07 AM »

... I find most people don't have the time or don't want to take the time to make such a large committment. Is that right? Maybe not but it's a fact of life. Volunteerism only goes so far. This is not a paid promotion which should not make a difference but it does.
Then perhaps CAP isn't a good for those people and they need to volunteer their efforts to an organization that doesn't need active participants - or just move them to patron status.  That too is a fact of life.  Volunteering is more than putting your name on a roster.

There's a lot of different levels of participation between giving all your free time to CAP and just being a name on the roster.  Every member donates their time in their own way.  If CAP only took those members who can and will give their every non-employed moment to the organization, then we wouldn't have very many members.
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David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Group CC and Squadron CC term limits
 


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