Will Civil Air Patrol get DCU or ABU?

[bosshawk]

I hate to rain on your opinion, but the OD fatigues were the standard field uniform in the Army until well after the Viet Nam War.  I first wore them at ROTC Summer Camp in 1956 and then wore them in both the Reserves and Active Duty until at least 1975.  I managed to spend some time during those years in "the field", wearing OD fatigues.  In VN, we were issued jungle fatigues(guess what color they were?)--OD.  You are likely too young to remember all that: the military world didn't start with BDUs.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I remember when my then-brother-in-law, who was in the Army, started transitioning from OD to BDU's.

I was in high school, so this would be sometime in the early 1980s.

He said that the point of doing so was so that all the Services would have a common field/work/combat uniform...see how THAT turned out.

I don't see any reason why we couldn't have already-available OD-cut BDU's.



For the "distinctiveness" crowd, we could do what the Air Force very briefly tried - replacing name/organisational tapes with the velcro flight suit leather nameplate.

We could also have bright (not subdued) grade insignia on the collar.

Both would save quite a bit in wear, and a heck of a lot in sewing.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No thanks, I would much rather stick as close to USAF as possible. I love having the tie in that we do.

[SARDOC]

No thanks, I would much rather stick as close to USAF as possible. I love having the tie in that we do.

Don't get me wrong.  I too love our shared heritage with the Air Force.  That said why do we clamor to wear a uniform that is designed for their work needs.  Why would us wearing a utility uniform that is independent of the USAF a bad thing?  The "distinctive" theme that seems foisted upon us by the very organization we want to be a part of seems like enough of a message that they don't feel the same way. 

Why can't we just celebrate those ties by focusing on Being Good at our mission rather than just looking good and trying to mirror our parent organization?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The "distinctive" theme that seems foisted upon us by the very organization we want to be a part of seems like enough of a message that they don't feel the same way. 

I don't think it's so much that as the walking-on-eggshells perception ever since the days of the berry boards by our own leadership that the AF doesn't want us looking any more like them.

The reason I suggested OD is because I don't think we need camouflage, and the OD colour hearkens back to our pickle suits.  Also, hopefully it would pacify those in our organisation who shout "distinctiveness!" all the time, though no doubt they would say the BDU's have to be grey.

[Spaceman3750]

The "distinctive" theme that seems foisted upon us by the very organization we want to be a part of seems like enough of a message that they don't feel the same way. 

I don't think it's so much that as the walking-on-eggshells perception ever since the days of the berry boards by our own leadership that the AF doesn't want us looking any more like them.

The reason I suggested OD is because I don't think we need camouflage, and the OD colour hearkens back to our pickle suits.  Also, hopefully it would pacify those in our organisation who shout "distinctiveness!" all the time, though no doubt they would say the BDU's have to be grey.

I know some members who would look pretty close to Mr. Castro in OD green w/ patrol cap . The facial hair is what really does it.

[SarDragon]

Raises hand. My beard isn't nearly as curly as Fidel's, though.   

[Hawk200]

The reason I suggested OD is because I don't think we need camouflage, and the OD colour hearkens back to our pickle suits.

Uh, have you seen the Air Force utility uniform? Not really an issue. (Unless you're standing next to a blue spruce. )

Our current ones are more of an issue, that's why the vest is required. 

... though no doubt they would say the BDU's have to be grey.

Shhh. Don't give anyone ideas!

[AngelWings]

With other color uniforms, we may end up looking like opfor...

For those of you who scream for navy blue to not look like the military, some of us are going to end up looking like the USAF Thunderbirds because they too wear a navy blue flightsuit and utility uniform (it is different but similar). Also, I've seen local police departments use them, too.

My point is that no matter what we are going to some how resemble a USAF unit some how, some way.

http://afthunderbirds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/120301-F-KA253-003.jpg

http://www.mildenhall.af.mil/photos/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=1405&?id=-1&page=33&count=24 (this picture gallery showcases the USAF blue coveralls, I have no clue if they are an actual uniform or just regular blue coveralls authorized for wear.)

[bflynn]

My point is that no matter what we are going to some how resemble a USAF unit some how, some way.

There's the pink camoflauge...

See, proof that being distinctive isn't necessarily better....

[AngelWings]

My point is that no matter what we are going to some how resemble a USAF unit some how, some way.

There's the pink camoflauge...

See, proof that being distinctive isn't necessarily better....

I wouldn't mind that at all 

[Private Investigator]

I hate to rain on your opinion, but the OD fatigues were the standard field uniform in the Army until well after the Viet Nam War.  I first wore them at ROTC Summer Camp in 1956 and then wore them in both the Reserves and Active Duty until at least 1975.  I managed to spend some time during those years in "the field", wearing OD fatigues.  In VN, we were issued jungle fatigues(guess what color they were?)--OD.  You are likely too young to remember all that: the military world didn't start with BDUs.

When I went to the Army Guard in 1982, from active duty, I was expecting new uniforms. I got three new sets of OD fatigues. The non prior service enlistees got BDUs. I had two sets of the OD jungle fatigues that I always got cash offers for.

Tanks for the memories Colonel.   

[PhoenixRisen]

My point is that no matter what we are going to some how resemble a USAF unit some how, some way.

There's the pink camoflauge...

That would go perfect with these:



If only we had a combat-oriented mission...

[SarDragon]

That'th tho thilly...   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

For those of you who scream for navy blue to not look like the military, some of us are going to end up looking like the USAF Thunderbirds because they too wear a navy blue flightsuit and utility uniform (it is different but similar). Also, I've seen local police departments use them, too.

They don't.  They scream for everything to be GREY, for reasons I shall never fathom.

[lordmonar]

If only we had a combat-oriented mission...

We do.....it is called green flag.....but not in the way that you mean. 

[titanII]

No thanks, I would much rather stick as close to USAF as possible. I love having the tie in that we do.

Why can't we just celebrate those ties by focusing on Being Good at our mission rather than just looking good and trying to mirror our parent organization?

What if we did both? What if we had a distinctive, military cut-yet different from any service utility uniform for all members? That way our  specific needs would be satisfied for a utility uniform, but we still keep the USAF style dress uniforms for those who meet weight/grooming standards so that we can keep our ties to the Air Force visible in our uniforms?

[SARDOC]

No thanks, I would much rather stick as close to USAF as possible. I love having the tie in that we do.

Why can't we just celebrate those ties by focusing on Being Good at our mission rather than just looking good and trying to mirror our parent organization?

What if we did both? What if we had a distinctive, military cut-yet different from any service utility uniform for all members? That way our  specific needs would be satisfied for a utility uniform, but we still keep the USAF style dress uniforms for those who meet weight/grooming standards so that we can keep our ties to the Air Force visible in our uniforms?

We have a number of valuable people to our organization that don't meet H/W standards or choose not to meet grooming standards.  The Air Force dictates that those outside of limits can not wear the Air Force Style uniform, why must we disregard our own traditions and heritage to wear a uniform that is only a part of that.  The Purpose of the CAP uniform is to identify us as the Civil Air Patrol.  An organization that is technically Older than the Air Force itself.  Why can we manage to have our uniform that holds true to our organizational missions and ideals?  If that means we have separate our organization so that only a few can wear the Air Force style uniform, I think that degrades us as an organization.

The Civil Air Patrol Core Values.  The fourth of which is RESPECT which according to CAPP 50-2 is defined as:

Respect: CAP members come from all walks of life. Therefore, it is extremely important that members treat each other with fairness and dignity, and work together as a team.  To do otherwise would seriously impair CAP's capability to accomplish the mission.

How is it Fair and dignified and cohesive team building if we have some of our members that can't even wear the same uniform?  It creates and artificial division among some folks.

[AngelWings]

No thanks, I would much rather stick as close to USAF as possible. I love having the tie in that we do.

Why can't we just celebrate those ties by focusing on Being Good at our mission rather than just looking good and trying to mirror our parent organization?

What if we did both? What if we had a distinctive, military cut-yet different from any service utility uniform for all members? That way our  specific needs would be satisfied for a utility uniform, but we still keep the USAF style dress uniforms for those who meet weight/grooming standards so that we can keep our ties to the Air Force visible in our uniforms?

Military cut means BDU style to most people, and will be impractical (unless ofcourse you are suggesting making that dreaded BlueDU our utility uniform). I wear dress blues twice, maybe three four times a busy month with a wing conference included, and one of those times is with CAC which isn't really a public image thing. We'll lose a lot of connectivity with the USAF personnel who see us, and we'll be less on the same page as them IE on the Air Force team. I hate to say it really badly, but looks are important for organizations.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

How is it Fair and dignified and cohesive team building if we have some of our members that can't even wear the same uniform?  It creates and artificial division among some folks.

We will have that dichotomy as long as the AF keeps current H/W standards, and for those who choose to have facial hair.

I had a beard before I joined CAP, but I shaved it off because I wanted to wear the AF uniform.

However, that isn't the only reason some choose the "corporate" uniforms.

Reasons I've heard are:

• They're cheap.
• You're a lot less likely to get gigged for uniform violations.
• They're cheap.
• There's no set standard for particular grey trousers or white shirts, and the polo shirt is only available from one vendor anyway.
• They're cheap.
• They're much easier to just throw on when you're in a hurry.
• They're cheap.
• You don't have to worry about C&C's in the corporate uniforms.
• They're cheap.
• You don't have to wear a hat, though some members wear a plethora of hats.
• Did I mention they're cheap?