CAP Members Increasing Filing Complaints External to CAP!

[RADIOMAN015]

First it's great to see finally that there's more information being given to the general membership regarding what is briefed at National Board meetings :clap:

It's very interesting to read the comments of the CAP IG
see: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Inspector_Gen_2_ACCAA51DDCF6F.pdf paragraph e3
Regarding the increase in complaints that CAP members are making to the CAP-USAF/IG and/or congressional members.

I think the advice the IG gives is very important to follow.  What would be interesting to find out is how long have the people making these complaints been in CAP and the general subject area of the complaints.  (I'm guessing it would be more personnel policy (as it applies to the individual) versus systemic in nature ).

RM

[PHall]

From my experience, the people making these complaints either do not trust the CAP IG system or they think that CAP itself is a good-ole-boy club and nothing will happen with their complaints.

And they don't care if their complaint makes CAP look bad. That's pretty much their intention!

[AngelWings]

I'm suprised there isn't a regulation requiring that these issues be met at the lowest possible area of the COC or for there to be consquences. I am not saying this is 100% agreeable, but it seems like an idea that' be thrown out there as a solution.

[RiverAux]

I can't think of many circumstances where making a complaint outside of CAP is going to be good for either the person making the complaint, CAP. or the Air Force. 

As PHall said, I believe these folks intend to make CAP look bad but I wonder if they realize that they're also making the Air Force look bad as well?  If they're alleging some form of corruption in CAP that is going to rub off on the Air Force since we're so closely linked with them.  That Congressman is just as likely to wonder why the AF wasn't providing the proper oversight to keep those sort of things from happening.

[peter rabbit]

I can't think of many circumstances where making a complaint outside of CAP is going to be good for either the person making the complaint, CAP. or the Air Force. 

I am a strong supporter of the IG system. The inspection program, if done properly, can help units focus on improvements - not just "filling out the paperwork". The complaint system can also have a positive effect.

However, I am aware of complaints where attempts to resolve at the lowest level failed, where the complaint was filed and an investigating officer appointed, and the investigation sits for months with no action. I am also aware of Reports of Investigation (ROI) that sit for months or longer without action from commanders. When things like that occur, what options do members have? The CAP-USAF/IG seems like the logical starting place, and then and only then, to your congessional rep or senator. I agree with the quote above - none of that is good for anyone. Therefore, it would seem that our new CAP/IG should have a high priority to review the status of outstanding cases and provide the National Commander and/or the BoG a list of where/who the bottlenecks are - and then appropriate action taken to resolve those bottlenecks.

Until time limits are placed on the length of investigations, the length of time to provide a closing letter for an ROI, or requirements for discipline is certain cases, this will continue to be a problem.

[PHall]

I can't think of many circumstances where making a complaint outside of CAP is going to be good for either the person making the complaint, CAP. or the Air Force. 

I am a strong supporter of the IG system. The inspection program, if done properly, can help units focus on improvements - not just "filling out the paperwork". The complaint system can also have a positive effect.

However, I am aware of complaints where attempts to resolve at the lowest level failed, where the complaint was filed and an investigating officer appointed, and the investigation sits for months with no action. I am also aware of Reports of Investigation (ROI) that sit for months or longer without action from commanders. When things like that occur, what options do members have? The CAP-USAF/IG seems like the logical starting place, and then and only then, to your congessional rep or senator. I agree with the quote above - none of that is good for anyone. Therefore, it would seem that our new CAP/IG should have a high priority to review the status of outstanding cases and provide the National Commander and/or the BoG a list of where/who the bottlenecks are - and then appropriate action taken to resolve those bottlenecks.

Until time limits are placed on the length of investigations, the length of time to provide a closing letter for an ROI, or requirements for discipline is certain cases, this will continue to be a problem.

The "problem" that's getting everybody's attention is when people complain through their congressman. They're basically bypassing the whole IG system.

[Private Investigator]

However, I am aware of complaints where attempts to resolve at the lowest level failed, where the complaint was filed and an investigating officer appointed, and the investigation sits for months with no action. I am also aware of Reports of Investigation (ROI) that sit for months or longer without action from commanders. When things like that occur, what options do members have?

Usually one party wants the other party demoted, 2B or placed in stocks. The old days of apology and shake hands apparently did not survive into the 21st century.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I believe those days went out when the days of Sir and Ma'am died. Sad thing that everyone has to see someone who said hi wrong get sued.

[NCRblues]

IMVHO, and I am sure I will get jumped for this but...frankly I don't care.

Members have seen the IG system fail time after time again. From the low level of wing backstabbing and bickering, to the highest level, with the first people to blow the whistle on HWSRN and got ignored.

If people do not have faith in a system, they will go around, above and below it. Restore faith, set time limits and provide proper feedback to members and watch the numbers slide to near zero.

[Eclipse]

I believe those days went out when the days of Sir and Ma'am died.

Where did they die?

[Spaceman3750]

A recurring theme I've noticed as I gain experience both inside of CAP and out is this: people will do whatever they have to, to get what they want. If that means discrediting the organization in the process, well, that's just collateral damage in their minds.

Like children, many think that being told no means "Nobody's listening to me!", when in fact it means "Your claim has no merit".

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Maybe not DEAD but dying, definitely dying. Not much is needed to bring it all back either, just a tiny bit of effort ans respect from everybody would do the trick.

We should all try that at our next meeting, everyone try and go out of your way to help someone with something at your next meeting/activity. Maybe, just maybe it will spread, everyone will try to work together and the meeting will go great and subsequent meetings will too. I know... wishful thinking, but it would work and it wouldn't really take much. If everyone just remembered that we are all on the same team CAP would be a much better place, it is already a great place, but we can make it better.

[FW]

These "complaints" have been going on for years.  Nothing really new here. Same thing with suing CAP.  It will never stop; no matter what regs we make up or how "good" the IG service is. 

Most times, when such a complaint is made, it finds it's way to the Executive Director who gives it to the National Commander, who gives it to the appropriate subordinate commander for action. When a complaint is made of the BoG, the SECAF does have some say in how things move forward,  the BoG now deals with complaints against the National Commander or Vice Commander (as it seems today).

We will never rid ourselves of external filing of complaints however, IMHO, if we develop processes of doing "business" which takes to heart our Core Values, we may be able to minimize such complaints  to be considered insignificant.

[RiverAux]

I don't think it is all that terribly unusual for service members to go to Congress on occasion. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have heard NCO's in the Army constantly tell their soldiers... you don't like, call your congressman.

Then when it happens... they are blindsided.

[bosshawk]

I can tell you, assuredly, that answering a "Congressional Inquiry"  is a big deal among the AD folks.  I don't have any experience with Congressional inquiries in CAP, so have no comment.

Having filed one IG complaint with my Wing IG when I was active in CAP, I can tell you that it was a very disappointing process.  After sitting in someone's inbox for the better part of four months, it was returned to me with an explanation to the effect that "the regs are not precise enough for a determination as to your complaint".  I filed a solid case of waste, fraud and abuse: complete with all of the related paperwork, receipts, personal statements, etc and the Wing IG and the CC brushed it off due to what they called regulations that were hazy in the language of the reg.

If you would like more details and explanation, ask the current National IG, he was the Wing CC.

[rustyjeeper]

I beleive that most complaints should be dealt with at the unit level whenever possible and if that is not possible the appropriate next course of action would be the IG program to resolve a difficult situation.
The letter RM has posted from the National IG has good advice and I feel that going to an external source (congress, atty, media etc.) should be the LAST resort in all cases. It is in everyones best interest for an internal program such as IG to resolve issues in a timely and objective manner and to interpret our regulations. Where I feel CAP has not helped itself is by not promoting the program.
Yes if you search for it you can find a contact in your Wing on their website- but the Wing websites are not always the easiest places to navigate.
If we want to see the IG utilized before an external agency how about a "contact my Wing IG button" smack dab in the middle of the e-services page like we have for the National Commander now ?

[CAP_truth]

Maybe we should remove the IG from being appointed by the national cc, approved by the national board and have nominee reviewed and appointed by the BoG and or SecAF report only to the BoG. Or maybe the IG personel be removed from the entire chain of command and they all report to the BoG. My opinion only.

[a2capt]

After sitting in someone's inbox for the better part of four months, ..... etc and the Wing IG and the CC brushed it off due to what they called regulations that were hazy in the language of the reg.

....  Gee... imagine that. 

[bflynn]

I agree with just about everything said here. 

Things shuold be resolved at the lowest possible level.  It is worse for everyone involved when people complain outside the system.  There are those who think CAP is a good-ol-boys club.  I have no opinion about having seen the IG system repeatably fail to address concerns, but obviously someone has the perception that is the case.  Perception is reality.

I think anyone who is honest would say that all of this is true.  And yet, people still report issues outside the system.  Why?  And when I ask why, I mean start at your own desk, critque yourself as honestly as you can and start to work in ever increasing circles until you find a problem.  The reason why this happens isn't because there's something wrong with the complainer.