October 25, 2020, 06:43:32 pm

FOUO, For Official Use Only

Started by whatevah, March 28, 2005, 10:47:13 pm

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

arajca

Quote from: alpha06 on September 21, 2005, 05:38:39 pm
Thanks for that. Itype fast sorry. What sensetive information do we broadcast on our radios that we dont want the general public toknow? The only thing I canthink of is names of deceased people we find. In my other little organiztion known as the United States Army, we do have very sensative items. I just dont see that in CAP. Sorry

The information covered by the FOUO designation is the actual frequencies CAP has been assigned by the AF. The AF considers ALL of its frequencies FOUO, therefore the frequencies we use are FOUO. Since there is an outside chance of a remote possibility we could be using our radios on a HLS mission, the AF has impressed upon National the importance of following AF procedures for AF frequencies. As such, it become OUR responsibility to follow those directions - whether or not we agree with them. Even though some members think it's all a bunch of BS, we still have to follow them.

ps. I was in the Army as well and handled Secret and Top Secret information and equipment daily. FOUO doesn't hold the same importance, but following the appropriate procedures does.

Major_Chuck

There are CAP missions that the general public does not need to know about.

Counter Drug, Homeland Security, support of the Transportation Security Administration, local support to law enforcement, Air Force assigned missions and the list can go on to include U.S. Forest Service, Customs and Immigration, etc.

Then you have the scanner junkies that interpret what they hear over the radios that can cause more harm then good in what they do.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Jerry

September 22, 2005, 01:50:40 am #22 Last Edit: September 22, 2005, 02:05:05 am by whatevah
Quote from: Major_Chuck on September 21, 2005, 10:43:01 pm
There are CAP missions that the general public does not need to know about.

Counter Drug, Homeland Security, support of the Transportation Security Administration, local support to law enforcement, Air Force assigned missions and the list can go on to include U.S. Forest Service, Customs and Immigration, etc.

Then you have the scanner junkies that interpret what they hear over the radios that can cause more harm then good in what they do.


I still hear members blurting out frequencies even after they've been told NOT to do it. I stress this at every opportunity when at our unit meetings and when teaching A and B Cuts.

On the scanner buffs, this is an excellent chance to promote the use of  Frequencies AH and AI for close-in ground work.  Particularly, AH has range on most days out to 50 miles or more. It thwarts the scanner listeners because *most* scanners won't decode SSB.  While he is sitting there playing with his toy, the traffic has been handled without him knowing it ;D.


Lt Col Jerry Oxendine
NCWG

March 9, 1964

edit: adjusted quote tag.

arajca

June 05, 2006, 09:25:24 pm #23 Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 05:32:27 am by arajca
National has implemented a new online OPSEC training course. You can take it here.

(deleted non-working link)

whatevah

the link to the letter doesn't work...

tip: since you're a "Seasoned Member" you can attach files to your posts.  click on "Additional Options" when you reply, and an attachment box will appear.
Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin

bosshawk

alpha06: some additional info that we sometimes broadcast on our radios that we don't want copied: when on a search for a missing airplane or missing person, we don't want the media to know when and where we have found a crash or a missing person.  For that reason, most good ICs use a code word to denote such a find: most savvy media people have scanners and monitor out freqs while we are on a search.  With the new repeaters and freqs, that will be much more difficult, especially if our members can learn to keep their mouths shut.  I spent 30 years in the Army, so know where you are coming from.  That said, there are plenty of CAP folks who are so excited about their service to God and country that they tend to want to tell everyone they know about the details.  All of the discussion on this post about FOUO is probably good: in CAP we really don't have much classified stuff.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

arajca

As a reminder, scanner enthusiasts will try hard to get CAP frequencies. For example, here is an email a CO sqdn commander received:
QuoteHello

I am an avid scanner /emergency radio monitor in Larimer county.

I have been trying to find any CAP frequencies for the Denver and northern Colorado areas can you please help?

I know of the standard common freqs I was hoping you can give me a list of any "local use frequencies "

Thanks and God bless

Jeffrey<><


If you receive an email like this, let the requestor know you cannot give out the information.

floridacyclist

I get asked all the time about CAP frequencies on the ham band - I just usually make a little joke about not wanting to have to kill them before going on to explain that we use military frequencies and they don't want us giving them out. That usually satisfies folks without sounding too uppity; they might be our next recruit.
Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
Wearer of many hats, master of none (but senior-rated in two)
www.tallahasseecap.org
www.rideforfatherhood.org

Major Lord

April 15, 2007, 04:12:48 am #28 Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 12:48:54 am by whatevah
This popped up on a search. I have an FCC commercial license and even I did not kknow about some of these alleged CAP frequencies: http://removed

Thats all public domain stuff too! The magazine, Popular Communications, did a feature front page article on our FUOU frequencies just a few months ago. Lets use some method of communicating that they will never break..our frequency is Unway, fourtyday, einway, ecimalday.....Better than Navajo code talking!

Capt. Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

DNall

Or let the NSA fix it for us & if the scanner guys can get thru that then they can go work for the NSA too.

SJFedor

Quote from: CaptLord on April 15, 2007, 04:12:48 am
This popped up on a search. I have an FCC commercial license and even I did not kknow about some of these alleged CAP frequencies: xxx.xx.xxxx

Thats all public domain stuff too! The magazine, Popular Communications, did a feature front page article on our FUOU frequencies just a few months ago. Lets use some method of communicating that they will never break..our frequency is Unway, fourtyday, einway, ecimalday.....Better than Navajo code talking!

Capt. Lord


*sigh*

Rather interesting, the first freq they have listed is 119.35. Hate to break it to them, but it's not a SAR frequency. Among other things in other places, in TN, it's the freq for the Western sector of Nashville Approach.

Every now and then when I'm cruising in a CAP plane doing o-flights or proficiency, I always monitor the CAP radio, and I'll hear an unauthorized user screwing around. It's kinda funny when you ask the station to identify itself because it is on a US Government Frequency. They get real quiet, real quick.

Although the frequencies are out there to be found, I would recommend removing the link from that post. Not telling you to, just strongly recommending. Regardless of whether it's public or not, we shouldn't advertise the link on here for more people who aren't as cunning to look them up (cuz it takes lots of skills to use google, girls only like guys with skills)  :o


Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

RogueLeader

Yeah, I found the CAP freq's on the first hit from google, took less than 30 sec's in a very fast time.
<redacted>

GRW 3340

SARPilotNY

Let's see...Mountain top, 10 towers, hundreds of antennas and just who wants to take CAP out?  I think there are bigger fish to fry!
CAP member 30 + years SAR Pilot, GTM, Base staff

Ricochet13

Quote from: Jerry link=topic=147.msg4239#msg4239 date=
I still hear members blurting out frequencies even after they've been told NOT to do it. I stress this at every opportunity when at our unit meetings and when teaching A and B Cuts.

On the scanner buffs, this is an excellent chance to promote the use of  Frequencies AH and AI for close-in ground work.  Particularly, AH has range on most days out to 50 miles or more. It thwarts the scanner listeners because *most* scanners won't decode SSB.  While he is sitting there playing with his toy, the traffic has been handled without him knowing it ;D.



Frequency agility throughout the entire range of assigned frequencies is something worth considering.  That would include not only AH and AI, but also AA and AB.  Just additional frequencies that could be used when conditions warrant.

smgilbert101

A few clarifications....

Publically available or not, USAF says its FOUO and we are REQUIRED to follow it.

Persons handling FOUO to Top Secret plus should have been required to attend a security briefing and should know better.

---> Specifically to my Army counterpart... mishandling FOUO documents can introduce you to Mr. Article 15.  In CAP it is called a 2B.  You are not the only one here who has a military background and you should know that a regulation is an order, not a request.  Some of the things said on our radios definietly should not be easilly overheard.  Such an attitude can cause real harm.  Mission details are private.  Divulging that information to the general public can cause significant emotional distress and place the safety of members at risk. Our operating frequencies are not necessarilly our alone.  We share those freqs with other agencies.  Diluging that information can place them at risk as well.

Third, you cannot just identify paragraphs in a document as being FOUO.  If a document contains FOUO information, the ENTIRE DOCUMENT is FOUO.  For example, if you were to place the comm regs in your regs binder, the binder would need to be Labelled FOUO.  That's a DoD (USAF's big brother) requirement.

Steve Gilbert
SWR-TX-434
Too much rack for my uniform, favorite job is "mentor" (or was that mental..hmm)
ex-alot of things and sometimes gumbly old bear.

ISNJH

I just did the online CAP OPSEC test

Stuff I already knew but it is always good to have a refresher course.

JCW0312

Quote from: ISNJH on November 13, 2007, 06:12:16 pm
I just did the online CAP OPSEC test

Stuff I already knew but it is always good to have a refresher course.


Common sense stuff most folks already know, but now THEY know you know;)
Jon Williams, 2d Lt, CAP
Memphis Belle Memorial Squadron
SER-TN-144

BuckeyeDEJ

Quote from: RogueLeader on June 11, 2007, 04:07:45 pm
Yeah, I found the CAP freq's on the first hit from google, took less than 30 sec's in a very fast time.

Like here? http://tuolumneradio.com/cap.html


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.

♠SARKID♠

February 15, 2008, 04:26:04 am #38 Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 04:40:30 am by ♠SARKID♠
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on February 15, 2008, 03:59:02 am
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 11, 2007, 04:07:45 pm
Yeah, I found the CAP freq's on the first hit from google, took less than 30 sec's in a very fast time.

Like here? http://tuolumneradio.com/cap.html


Just because you can doesn't mean you should.  If people can find the freqs on their own, so be it.  But in no way should you aid them, even by posting a link.  Thats what OPSEC and the whole FOUO deal is about.

Remember that part in your OPSEC training that talks about not showing off your knowledge?  I believe that would apply pretty well here.  This forum is read by many/most of the higher ups; wing commanders, nationals personnel, etc.  It reflects pretty poorly on us when we start breaking regs on one of the most highly frequented CAP websites on the net.

BuckeyeDEJ

Cadet Turkal,

While I am glad you're adamant about operational security, you're missing the point.

As you've admitted, the scanner bugs are free to twist the dials however they want and think they can "find" things. And they have the Constitutional right to post information they find out in the open, including any information transmitted over those frequencies. After all, America's radio spectrum is owned by the public, which bestows its control on the FCC. It's no different than standing out on a sidewalk, taking pictures of people who walk by -- even those who don't want their pictures taken. If they don't want to be seen, too bad. They're in a public place.

The real concern: Where did the Web site get more specific information than a twist of the dial may or may not have produced? Whether that information is correct or not, it represents a potential OPSEC violation.

It reminds me of a case in West Virginia, where a news reporter, who overheard police on a scanner talking about juvenile offenders by name, published those names in a related news story. (In West Virginia, juvie offenders' names are kept absolutely confidential.) When it went to court, the cops were at fault, and the newspaper was upheld.

It's simple: If you don't want information or speculation out there, don't key the mike and speak. Whatever you say, whether it's factual or not, will be picked up by someone.

All anyone has to do is Google "Civil Air Patrol frequencies" and they can find a bunch of stuff, as you know. That the information is out there means the Powers That Be need to get out there and warn the Web site operators they should be voluntarily mum on CAP operations, regardless of the veracity of the information. After all, we're a nation at war. Each of those Web sites -- whether they're accurate or not -- represents a violation that needs to be addressed by someone higher up the food chain than a squadron commander in Tampa Bay.

(For the record, my personal reply to someone asking for communications information isn't much different from what FloridaCyclist, above, would say.)

As a final note, while I appreciate your passion for operational security, I'm not sure whether to find your words out of line. I hope you can prove me wrong. While this forum allows freedom of expression outside the chain of command, it's still within a CAP context. If you know who you're talking to, please conduct yourself accordingly. Thank you.


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.