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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Wear of military ribbons on AF style uniform
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Author Topic: Wear of military ribbons on AF style uniform  (Read 6078 times)
cwade1775
Recruit

Posts: 9
Unit: PCR-OR-099

« on: January 03, 2012, 10:32:39 PM »

Greetings,
I have an officer that has asked if it's ok to wear only his AF ribbons on the AF style uniform.  I haven't been able to find anything that says it's ok or not ok...
Anyone have any ideas?
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Christopher Wade
Major CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
McMinnville Composite Squadron
Oregon Wing
Pump Scout
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 10:35:57 PM »

On the AF uniform, yes. On the aviator shirt, CAP ribbons only.

CAPM 39-1

5-2. When Awards and Decorations are Worn. Ribbons are mandatory with the USAF service dress
and the semiformal uniforms. They are optional with all other service uniforms and the aviator shirt.
No military awards or decorations may be worn on the aviator shirt. NOTE: All ribbons and devices
worn by senior members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip
of the collar of AF-style shirts/blouses worn as outergarments. Miniature medals are mandatory with the
mess dress uniform (men and women). One miniature medal may be worn on the semiformal blazer
uniform.

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform
provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force,
Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding
service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence.
See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 10:43:38 PM by Pump Scout » Logged
cwade1775
Recruit

Posts: 9
Unit: PCR-OR-099

« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 10:50:34 PM »

ok..I saw that....only question I had is the member wants to wear only his military ribbons...no CAP ribbons...any rule against that?
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Christopher Wade
Major CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
McMinnville Composite Squadron
Oregon Wing
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 23,399

« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 11:04:00 PM »

Not specifically, but were I his commander I would be asking "Why?".

In most cases it is because the person is just too lazy to make a proper CAP-specific ribbon rack, is "trolling
for awesomeness", or is a poser.

Military ribbons have little relevance to CAP, and the majority of your other members will have no idea what they are for. 
My personal experience is that anyone who is too "excited" about their previous anything experience (within a CAP context),
probably doesn't understand CAP or just wants people to be "excited" for them.

The whole point of the ribbons is some shorthand to fellow members about where you've been and whether people
you've worked for liked you enough to decorate you.

You'd be well within your rights to require substantiation for anything he wants to wear.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,729

« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 11:05:43 PM »

There is no rule against it.

Personally, if they do not want to wear their CAP ribbons on the CAP uniform, I have to wonder if they're ashamed of the CAP ribbons and if so, is that reflected in their attitude toward CAP?
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CyBorg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352
Unit: Q'onos

« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 11:09:49 PM »

I'm in the other camp...I only wear CAP ribbons.

There's a handful of others I could wear, but I follow the K.I.S.S. principle on it...not to mention that there are a couple of online rackbuilders that will give you contradictory information.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,571
Unit: SWR-AZ-085

« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 11:10:27 PM »

So what if those are the only ribbons that someone has?
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CyBorg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352
Unit: Q'onos

« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 11:13:48 PM »

So what if those are the only ribbons that someone has?

Then I would think it's perfectly all right to wear those.

My first squadron had a member who was also an NCO in the Air Force Reserve.  For a while all his CAP ribbon rack had were his Air Force ribbons and the CAP Membership Ribbon.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 23,399

« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 11:27:06 PM »

So what if those are the only ribbons that someone has?

Beyond the first few weeks, every member should have at least the membership ribbon.
No one should be participating for very long without at least that dec.

Again the question comes down to motivation - a current or recent former military guy with a handy rack, fine, whatever for a few weeks,
but someone with a row or two who just can't be bothered (or worse), needs a conversation.

Something I have seen around me more than a few times, and fairly recently, was active and reservists who simply won't buy a
uniform of any kind and keep showing up in their USAF uniform (especially ABU's), that violates regs on both sides of the house.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
GroundHawg
Seasoned Member

Posts: 455
Unit: RMR-MT-012

« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 11:36:02 PM »

I'm in the other camp...I only wear CAP ribbons.


Me too. I look ridiculous if I wear both and feel it is disrespectful to only wear military ribbons. Ive thought about wearing my top 3 military on top of my CAP, but havent yet looked to see if that is authorized.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 23,399

« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 11:39:52 PM »

You can mix and match any of the authorized ribbons.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
RogueLeader
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,178
Unit: WY066 CC

« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 11:41:31 PM »

I'm in the other camp...I only wear CAP ribbons.


Me too. I look ridiculous if I wear both and feel it is disrespectful to only wear military ribbons. Ive thought about wearing my top 3 military on top of my CAP, but havent yet looked to see if that is authorized.

It is. For us Seniors, it is: All, Some, or None. I have two stacks. One with all military and CAP, and one with CAP and military that CAP had influence on getting awarded, like my movsm, and my aam.
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CyBorg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352
Unit: Q'onos

« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 12:47:29 AM »

It's a bit like ANG/ARNG...most of them have two separate ribbon racks.

One has both their Federal and State ribbons, the other their Federal only, because they cannot wear State ribbons when they are activated for Federal service.

A CAP officer I once served with who had a very extensive military career (USN, AFRES) and concurrent CGAUX service had a most interesting ribbon rack.  He had Navy, Air Force, CG, CGAUX and State Ribbons (yes, I know those aren't permitted on the CAP uniform).

How he figured out orders of precedence for that I'll never know.

I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to hang a few of these on:

http://www.medalsofamerica.com/ItemList--Commemorative-Medals--m-599

They're meant to be for display cases and wear on civilian clothing, and not on military uniform.  However, since the G/W is not a military uniform, I wonder if someone's ever tried to do it...mind you, I wouldn't, but there might be some that would.

Of course, that's pure conjecture on my part.
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flyboy1
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 868

« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 08:09:19 AM »

I'm in the other camp...I only wear CAP ribbons.


Me too. I look ridiculous if I wear both and feel it is disrespectful to only wear military ribbons. Ive thought about wearing my top 3 military on top of my CAP, but havent yet looked to see if that is authorized.

It is. For us Seniors, it is: All, Some, or None. I have two stacks. One with all military and CAP, and one with CAP and military that CAP had influence on getting awarded, like my movsm, and my aam.

Me, too. For the longest time, I only wore my military ribbons. Honestly, they were the only ribbons that really meant something to me. Then, after 10 years, I added one row on the bottom with the top three CAP ribbons...that's three of 14 I'm entitled to wear. I chose to be conservative and simple in my uniform choices.

Besides, what's the big deal. It's personal choice. When I was a cadet, there was a major in our unit who was a charter member of the CAP. He only always wore one row of ribbons....the three he earned in federal service during WW II as a PA National Guardsman. No one ever challenged his choice.

If the guy can wear the military uniform and only wants to wear his military stuff, why the issue, especially if he's a valued participating member. You really want to tick someone off and lose the individual because someone else is offended because he won't wear CAP ribbons......
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,219
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 08:27:43 AM »

When I wear the CAP uniform. It's CAP on the shirt and Military on the service coat. Too many of each to combine.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,472

« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2012, 10:54:46 AM »

When I first rejoined, I wore my military ribbon rack for the first several months until I could reassemble my CAP ones. Went to a wing conference held at my local unit, and had a cadet look at my rack and somewhat loudly proclaim "I've got more ribbons than you!" I simply replied, "At the moment, yes, you do." Six months later, went to a different conference, and he was very surprised, and very disappointed to find I was now wearing more than him. He was a problem child, the son of a unit commander from a very problem squadron.

I don't see the problem in wearing them for a little bit if it is all you have. But if it runs over years, I might wonder. Most of those folks you can kind of "nudge" into showing some CAP pride by talking about them. "How long have you been in?" "You got your Membership Ribbon?" Next time you see them, "You should have a Red Service by now, right?" Follow that up with things like, "Didn't you go to an enampment?" and so forth.

These days, I advocate wearing them all, military, CAP, whatever else you have that would be legal on a CAP uniform. It shows people what you have done. At one time, I made sure a reference on all military ribbons was available to everyone in our squadron, many in the unit could read military ribbons just as well as CAP ones. If someone in my unit is prior military, I like to know the military resume as well. Of course, on one occasion I caught a faker and he wasn't around long after that. You don't get away with wearing ribbons awarded for Desert Shield when you were only in the Army for six months.

People can be encouraged to wear them with the right questions. Just express curiousity about their CAP activities, they'll start wearing them.
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CyBorg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352
Unit: Q'onos

« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2012, 04:32:51 PM »

We had one guy in my first unit who had been Pararescue in Vietnam, as well as being an airline pilot with zillions of hours under his belt, and a great, great guy on top of it.  He also wore the USAF Pararescue beret badge on the right side; I'm not sure how regulation that is.

When he was an SMWOG, all he wore was his military ribbons, and no-one ever thought of saying "why do you wear your Bronze Star, Air Medal, etc. when you haven't got any CAP ribbons yet?"
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ColonelJack
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,203
Unit: SER-GA-153

« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2012, 08:49:53 PM »

I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to hang a few of these on:

http://www.medalsofamerica.com/ItemList--Commemorative-Medals--m-599

They're meant to be for display cases and wear on civilian clothing, and not on military uniform.  However, since the G/W is not a military uniform, I wonder if someone's ever tried to do it...mind you, I wouldn't, but there might be some that would.

Of course, that's pure conjecture on my part.


Nor would I.  But just for the sake of pointing it out, their Cold War Victory commemorative stinks.  I much prefer this one:

http://www.foxfall.com/cwm.htm

It just looks ... cooler.

YMMV, of course.

Jack
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Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
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CyBorg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352
Unit: Q'onos

« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 09:32:13 PM »

That one is nicer.

I wish I would have known it was available when I did a shadow box of Army insignia for my ex-Soldier dad before he died in '05.  :-[

After all, he was very near the front lines of the Cold War - West Germany in the late 1950's.
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CyBorg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352
Unit: Q'onos

« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 09:35:35 PM »

When I first rejoined, I wore my military ribbon rack for the first several months until I could reassemble my CAP ones. Went to a wing conference held at my local unit, and had a cadet look at my rack and somewhat loudly proclaim "I've got more ribbons than you!" I simply replied, "At the moment, yes, you do." Six months later, went to a different conference, and he was very surprised, and very disappointed to find I was now wearing more than him. He was a problem child, the son of a unit commander from a very problem squadron.

Have you ever seen a dual-status CAP/AFJROTC cadet?  My first squadron had a few of those and cripes-a-mighty, they made Colin Powell look like a new buck private.  It was almost bordering on garish.

I would have answered this young man with "yes, you have more ribbons, but ribbons do not necessarily convey authority or integrity, except in the case of a MOH recipient, who all personnel must salute, regardless of rank."
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Wear of military ribbons on AF style uniform
 


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