Its not just CAP who gets the fakers...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We all are entitled to our opinions.  It alarms me that some members are so concerned about being able to wear the AF style uniforms and if that was taken away they would leave the organization, especially on the Emergency Services side, because functionality of uniform & strong organization identification are important .  Field uniform wise I would like to see a very distinctive uniform in use that leaves no doubt that it is Civil Air Patrol providing that support -- it's just good public relations to achieve this.  We don't have that yet.

1. You seem to think that the raison d'etre for CAP is ES, ES, ES.  It is not.
2. The fact that many CAP members are PROUD of our connection with the AF and the uniform does not dilute who CAP is.  Many of us would be very sorry if that were lost.
3. All that needs to be done to observe a "distinctive field uniform," whether BDU or BBDU, is to read the "CIVIL AIR PATROL" nametape.

Some CAP "Officers" seem to get a holy than thou attitude when dealing with the military and even some civilians.  That so called fantasy attitude sometimes get seen (e.g. security forces entry gate guards) and than when they get jacked up they are all upset.  They cause their own problems. 

We are OFFICERS - CAP OFFICERS - whether you like it or not.  If you don't, put in for a change in the regulations through your chain of command.

I have never observed the kind of "holier than thou" behaviour you keep insisting exists in this organisation.  Believe me, I would see it if it existed as my unit meets on an ANG base.  I have not seen one direct, factual citation from you on this, other than apocryphal, broad-brush accounts.  We have a very good relationship with the SF and gate guards.  Most of them know us by sight.  I usually just show my ID and whoever's on says "OK Captain, have a good evening," and I return it.  If I get a salute, I return it.  If I don't, big deal.

Also regulation wise it is quite clear as to CAP's status -- rank does not get any privileges. CAP members are just "PFC"'s. 

We are not PFC's.  PFC is a military rank of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps.  We are civilian volunteers with a military rank structure.  I have not seen in almost 19 years in CAP anyone trying to pull any "privilege of rank."  In fact, once at an airshow I was working, I called a Navy Lieutenant "sir" (I was a CAP 2nd Lieutenant) and his response was to take the huff and say "Don't call me 'sir!'  You guys are not really military!"  OK, so that's what you get for observing customs and courtesies.  Go fly it up your afterburner then, Tom Cruise.

Also live with this fact --- most people in the AF could care less about CAP, and it isn't worth the effort to educate everyone, only the appropriate 'decision makers' need to know about us, especially at the local level

Believe me, I know about the Air Force's attitude toward us, and the only one saying it isn't worth the effort to educate them is YOU.

I think there's a lot more that goes on than gets reported to anyone regarding improper behavior in a CAP uniform, which is more likely to occur with any of the AF styles.   It just doesn't mean interacting with the military but the interaction that also goes on with the civilian population (that's why there's limits as to when/how long a CAP uniform can be worn and anyone observed outside those parameters needs to be looked at very carefully).

You sound like a conspiracy theorist with that..."there are things going on that I know about, but no-one else in CAP does."  Very, very, very rarely do I even get asked about my uniform of ANY kind when in public.  In fact, about 15 years ago a young woman in a department store mistook me for a store security guard, and I was in CAP blues!

What you are suggesting about "parameters" and "how long a CAP uniform can be worn" would require everyone to wear a monitor of some sort.  I think MOST CAP members know what the rules are, and what the difference is between stopping at McDonalds on the way home to grab a burger and stopping at an expensive restaurant where you're going to be for a couple of hours.

A few years ago I was on a SAREX and we went to lunch at a Denny's.  Most of us were in sage green flight suits, and others of us were in BDU's.  By your reasoning, we should have stripped out of those, put on civilian clothes and then switched back when we left to go back to mission base.  Sorry mate, there aren't enough phone booths left to constantly be doing that kind of Clark Kent thing.

Personally I joined CAP to participate in Emergency Services/Radio Communications, and also agreed to do some supporting roles e.g Public Affairs (which I've been very fortunate to get the best TV media coverage in the wing (likely the only coverage))

And again, not everyone is an ES junkie.  If you're that good of a PAO, good for you.  My unit has a very good PAO, and we've never been on TV, though she has certainly got us a fair bit of print media coverage (and psst: she wears the AF uniform).

Wear of AF type uniforms just was not a reason for why I joined CAP.  I think there needs to be a delicate balance of "distinctiveness"  in the wear of AF type uniform by adult members and very good supervision of them when they wear these uniforms.

It wasn't mine either.  I was in the Air National Guard.  I had to take a medical separation.  CAP is my way of continuing my service to the Air Force.  I have done it as a Safety Officer, Administrative Officer, Testing Officer, Drug Demand Reduction Officer, Deputy Squadron CC, Mission Scanner, Observer, Mission Base Comms, and often by just showing up and doing what is asked of me.  Also, keeping CAP a safe place for our young people in a very unsafe world is a big motivator for me.

The kind of "distinctiveness" you seek goes even beyond the Air Force's nebulous and unenforceable "low light/at a distance."

I have served in Composite, Senior and Cadet units.  With the exception of the Senior flying club squadron, where no-one really gave a monkey's about wearing uniforms, the units I have been in have been pretty good about self-policing in uniform wear.  I haven't seen anything beyond "check your gig line," "check your unbuttoned pocket," etc.  I was once told by my second CC when I was a second lieutenant that my hair needed to be trimmed (and she told me in private).  I got it trimmed, and it was never brought up again.  This same commander also banned another member from wearing anything but the Smurf suit because his uniform was often so unkempt.

If that isn't proper supervision and self-policing, I don't know what is.

[NIN]

Annnnd once again, we've taken a thread _not_ about uniforms and turned it into a uniform thread.

Nice going.

[Eclipse]

Annnnd once again, we've taken a thread _not_ about uniforms and turned it into a uniform thread.

Nice going.

Um...this is literally >all< about uniforms, at least in terms of the fakery...

[Major Lord]

I did not join CAP to wear the Uniform, although I recognize that it is a great privilege. RM seems to find the idea that we might be confused as something we are not as just too awful to bear. Sure, its occasionally embarrassing to have someone at the gas station walk up to me and "thank me for my service" but I just tell them thanks and let them know that I will pass their thanks on to the people who really deserve it. I actually joined CAP because my son was a cadet. Thinking I could just hang out in the parking lot and work on my laptop did not work out well. One day, a Senior Member knocked on my window, and when I rolled it down, I think they chloroformed me, because when I woke up I was being fingerprinted and fitted for BDU's......At least I had both my kidneys and did not wake up in a bathtub of ice.......

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

Sure, its occasionally embarrassing to have someone at the gas station walk up to me and "thank me for my service" but I just tell them thanks and let them know that I will pass their thanks on to the people who really deserve it.

It's also more than a little insulting to everyone involved that...

...CAP service is somehow 2nd class (it isn't).

...that the person doing the thanking can't read English and doesn't know what CAP is (sometimes they actually do).

...that the military somehow looks down on CAP service collectively with any angst or ill-will (they don't in my circles) - if anything,
when they find out we are there for free, as volunteers, their respect increases.

...that somehow all other services, organizations, and agencies are free from "klunkers" who impact the image and perception
of those around them.

I would not belong to any organization that asked as much as CAP does, yet about which I seemed to have so much disdain.
What's the point of that?

[ol'fido]

"We are not PFC's.  PFC is a military rank of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps.  We are civilian volunteers with a military rank structure."

PFC= Private [Filter Subversion] Civilian

[NIN]

Annnnd once again, we've taken a thread _not_ about uniforms and turned it into a uniform thread.

Nice going.

Um...this is literally >all< about uniforms, at least in terms of the fakery...

In this instance no. The faker in question, while yes he did wear a uniform to facilitate part of his fakery, he also did so in written documents and claims he made, etc.

To say his fakery was all about uniforms is like saying "to spot the child predator, all you gotta do is look for the 'FREE CANDY' van."

[NIN]

"We are not PFC's.  PFC is a military rank of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps.  We are civilian volunteers with a military rank structure."

PFC= Private [Filter Subversion] Civilian

Marine PFC: Pointless [expletive] Chevron

[Major Lord]

"Private Soldier" is a medieval term for soldiers who are hired, conscripted, or acquired through feudal rights. What is a "Private Civilian"?

Major Lord

[ol'fido]

"Private Soldier" is a medieval term for soldiers who are hired, conscripted, or acquired through feudal rights. What is a "Private Civilian"?

Major Lord

What PFC(E-3)s want to  be at the end of their enlistments. It's military slang. Roll with it.

[rmutchler]

Sure, its occasionally embarrassing to have someone at the gas station walk up to me and "thank me for my service" but I just tell them thanks and let them know that I will pass their thanks on to the people who really deserve it.

I have also run into the occasionally embarrassing moment. Most recently, I was working at an Air Show and a passing little girl saw me in BDUs and loudly exclaimed "Mommy!  Look!  An Army Man!"  I politely smiled, slightly embarrassed, and continued to my post.

IMO, there is no need to be embarrassed or feel awkward about it.  We may not be military, but we do serve our country proudly.  People may not know us as CAP, just see the USAF part of our name plates, but we are an auxiliary of the Air Force, and should be proud of that fact.  Does that make us a faker or non deserving of someone randomly thanking us for our service?  I say No.

[medicmike]

I did not join CAP to wear the AF style uniform either.  I joined to help serve the community I live in.  I will wear whatever uniform we are authorized to wear and will wear it proudly.  As an Air Force retiree, the AF style uniform appears different enough from the actual AF uniform that it is easy to tell the difference.  I have never seen any CAP member trying to pass themselves off as an AF member.  This includes all the time I was active duty or in the years since I retired.

[ol'fido]

If you are on CT very long, you will get used to Radioman making unsubstantiated claims  of CAP members wearing AF style unis to a)be a wannabe  and live out some sort of Walter Mitty fantasy b)get salutes they don't deserve c)get some unspecified "benefits" from wearing the uniform.

[bosshawk]

NIN: some of us are really relieved that you have shared that burden with us.  I am sure that the sleep which you have gained has more than paid for your discomfort all those years.

Wink/wink.

Great post.

[Private Investigator]

My deputy and I were standing outside the old clothing sales store at Selfridge ANGB, wearing blues and the "poplin" jacket, waiting for our cadets to finish up when two ANG airmen exited the store. Both airmen saluted and said "good morning, sir."

Thanks. Now maybe I can sleep better at night.

Don't worry eh, we thought you were Canadiens!   

[JK657]

A few weeks ago I was at Joint Base MDL for demob with numerous soldiers from my unit. While waiting for the bus two CAP cadets walked past us and headed to Clothing and Sales. The cadets saw me, saluted and continued on their way. One of my soldiers (E-4 SPC) then saluted the cadets. They returned it and afterwards when he made it over to where I was I asked him why he saluted the cadets. His response: " I have no idea what rank wears a diamond but it was shiny so I just saluted" Made me laugh

[PHall]

A few weeks ago I was at Joint Base MDL for demob with numerous soldiers from my unit. While waiting for the bus two CAP cadets walked past us and headed to Clothing and Sales. The cadets saw me, saluted and continued on their way. One of my soldiers (E-4 SPC) then saluted the cadets. They returned it and afterwards when he made it over to where I was I asked him why he saluted the cadets. His response: " I have no idea what rank wears a diamond but it was shiny so I just saluted" Made me laugh

He just followed the first thing you learn at Basic Training. "When in doubt, whip it out!" aka If you don't know, salute!

[a2capt]

ne day, a Senior Member knocked on my window, and when I rolled it down, I think they chloroformed me, because when I woke up I was being fingerprinted and fitted for BDU's.....

Hah!    Another one.. That parking lot trap works

Thanks. Now maybe I can sleep better at night.

... Nah, you'll need to make an appearance in person at Westover and confess live.. where the PAO can write i.. oh, wait. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

NIN:

Sir, your "mea culpa" was bloody hilarious, but right on target!

But to be fair, it's not just RM...there is a small-but-vocal subset of CAP members that want to see us out of the USAF uniform entirely.  Most, but not all, tend to be the "ES-is-life" types.  I wonder why the correlation there?

Back when I was a silverbar looie, I passed a Canadian Captain at an airshow.  I was in BDU's and he was in his flight suit.  I recognised his insignia, saluted and greeted him "good afternoon, Sir."  He returned the salute, "good afternoon, Lef-tenant."  A bit later we got to chatting and we were on a first name basis.  He asked me what CAP was and I gave him the Reader's Digest condensed version.

By RM's "logic" I should have told this real Officer with a real Commission from Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and her other Realms and Territories that I was not really a Lef-tenant, that he should not have addressed me as such, I wasn't a real officer and I was truly sorry for being a bad international ambassador and casting such a bad light on the U.S. Air Force.

At the same airshow an AFRES first looie came up and saluted.  I did make a partial disclaimer to him, saying "you don't have to salute me."  He said "I know, but I just wanted to render respect to a fellow officer (his words, not mine)."

Perhaps I should have prostrated myself on the tarmac before this young REAL lieutenant and did the "I'm not worthy" bit...

[ol'fido]

Saw a guy outside Walmart on the way home from work(Needed a case for my glasses.) He was collecting money for Wounded Warriors.org. When I saw him, my instincts just said "FAKER!!!!". I thought this for the following reasons:

1) He was wearing the outdated dress greens. Now he could be retired or discharged. He was wearing it properly with shoes shined and pressed. But he also...

2)Was not wearing a cover standing just outside the door of Wally World.

3)He was wearing Infantry branch insignia but his unit patch was the 4th PsyOp Group and a SF combat patch. He also had an Infantry cord, CIB, and AAS wings. About 7 rows of fruit salad and 4 unit citations. There were no blue discs under the branch and US insignia on the lapels. I was straight infantry so I don't know if Infantry guys in  non-infantry assignments wear the discs.

4)He was wearing a SAPPER tab, but no SF tab. I guess he could have been attached or assigned to a SF group in a non-SF role without being tab qualified.

5)He was wearing a AR Overseas Training Ribbon so he might have been in a number of different branches and MOSs depending on his active and reserve time.

Everything about his uniform could have a logical explanation, but there were enough oddities to raise my "Faker" radar. I didn't talk to him or stop to stare at the uniform. I just did a couple of slow fly-bys
going in and out so I can't say if there was anything  wrong with the rack but like I said there were just a couple of little things that stood out. Does Walmart check the bonafides of these guys.