The wonderful World of covers.

[a2capt]

Can you guys make one big post instead of 3 or 4 posts?

The Post Counter God would think the subjects ended the World.

[abdsp51]

Does 39-1 still have the statement in it that a member falls under previous units/wing uniform policies unless they have transferred etc? I ran into that myself many moons ago with a unit I transferred into the CA wing.  I would verify with the respective commander what the uniform policy is. There are times when a policy, pub, reg etc should be violated however it should not be a frequent occurrence. 

[a2capt]

I'm of the "show me the supplement" type myself. My CC said so doesn't mean anything. Because they could be siting something they heard that someone said their CC (group, wing) said. It could have been revoked, or it could be based on an incomplete story.

IE: They specified one time, that the golf shirt be worn with khaki pants for a PCR function, and lots of people running around CAWG took that is "oh, that's a different uniform combination now".

[Eclipse]

39-1 contains no such provision.

Local policies and supplements have authority inside their respective jurisdiction and no further.

[Hawk200]

I think one major problem with the "my commander said so" is that you never know if they actually did. The individual could easily be lying.

An example of the "somebody told me" is in one of my prior wings, a friend of mine took over command of a squadron where the cadet commander showed up wearing with standard BDU's (blue ones weren't even around at the time) an Air Force Academy royal blue beret, a goatee, and a sharktooth necklace. He told the unit commander that he "was told at encampment that it was allowed." An obvious lie when you consider that is in blatant violation of the manual. The problem is that the former commander let him do it, thinking that it was indeed allowed.

That's an extreme example of the problems, and they create issues that shouldn't exist. Even if the individual's present commander tells the person that it's authorized, it's still a violation. That violation may be permitted at the persons home unit, but it doesn't belong outside of it. If you're going to be sneaky, you need to stay sneaky and leave the unauthorized items at home. If you come to my unit, I should never see your home unit's unauthorized practice. And that other commander should never put me in the position of dealing with it in the first place. That's a failure in both leadership and command, and it is extremely unprofessional conduct on that home unit's part.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It'd be nice to have berets as at least an optional headpiece.

If it's not worn with an AF-type uniform, and you don't put any CAP blingage on it, I don't see why one wouldn't be wearable with the G/W.  It's just a hat.

[COL Land]

If the USAC wears a grey beret, I'm surprised they haven't caught a bit of stick from the AF Combat Weather types...elite units do tend to be somewhat protective of their distinguishing headgear.

Actually, we contacted the Combat Weather folks to get the supplier for the heather grey berets.   



Key is the USAC-unique flash, patterned after the Army's (13 stars), yet in black and gold.   We've had VERY positive reaction to this unique headgear for our Cadets.   

[AngelWings]

If the USAC wears a grey beret, I'm surprised they haven't caught a bit of stick from the AF Combat Weather types...elite units do tend to be somewhat protective of their distinguishing headgear.

Actually, we contacted the Combat Weather folks to get the supplier for the heather grey berets.   



Key is the USAC-unique flash, patterned after the Army's (13 stars), yet in black and gold.   We've had VERY positive reaction to this unique headgear for our Cadets.

They look really professional and I think, in a different color, might be a good distinguishing part of our CAP uniforms and might allow us to head more towards the USAF side of the uniform world.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You know little guy, I have thought the same thing for quite a while. The beret is more professional looking, and is easier to maintain than a PC. But when it comes to headgear, it is hard for everyone to agree, and this is just my stand.

The PC gets smashed when you put it into your pocket and the brim can get distorted while it's there. While a beret, once it's properly fitted, is really hard to distort. Easy maintenance, if it gets dirty you can toss it in the web, and provided you didn't buy it from Vg, they don't loose their color like a PC. I wear a beret any time I am authorized. Indiana wing has a memo about them for GT members. To me, they look better, and are easier to maintain. I have to hang my PC up, to ensure that nothing happens to it, but I have a black box on my dresser hat I put all of my CAP stuff in, ranks, ribbons, pins, things of that sort, and it is just fine, if I have to put it in my pocket, it comes out just fine, not smashed or rolled up like a PC is.

Another plus for those who are huge about distinction from USAF, you put the SM flash on it, or the Cadet flash, or cadet officer grade, not a little piece of cloth like the PC.

[bflynn]

I kind of like the idea, except I don't think that berets are the best thing to implement that idea. Personally, I don't very much like berets on utility uniforms because of their lack of practicality. What about different colored t-shirts under BDU's?
The only thing is, wouldn't this system just be redundant of the badges we're already wearing?

Do you really need a color to tell you what someone's job is?  What someone holds multiple jobs, do they wear like a rugby shirt?  Or maybe for some, a scottish tartan?

How about talking to people and getting to know them?  Especially those in your squadron/wing.  Or, if it's someone that you don't know well, use it as a talking point to get to know them better.

You might  not like talking to others - but I promise it will make you more effective, it will make you able to get your job done more correctly.

[titanII]

Do you really need a color to tell you what someone's job is?  What someone holds multiple jobs, do they wear like a rugby shirt?  Or maybe for some, a scottish tartan?
How about talking to people and getting to know them?  Especially those in your squadron/wing.  Or, if it's someone that you don't know well, use it as a talking point to get to know them better.
You might  not like talking to others - but I promise it will make you more effective, it will make you able to get your job done more correctly.

It was only an idea (not even mine to begin with). I had already said I didn't think it was too great.

The only thing is, wouldn't this system just be redundant of the badges we're already wearing?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I shall never understand the dislike of the beret by Americans, given that it is so widespread in use virtually everywhere else in the world.


RAF Air Training Corps


Canadian SAR Tech


Finnish Navy Admiral

But with us, it's either "don't wear it because it stinks" or "don't wear it except for elite units."

AAhhhhdoannngettitt.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I don't get it either, it is a professional looking head gear, if worn right. Not to mention, yes it does portray an elite mindset, and for the most part that is a good thing, unless you get those who are weak minded and complain that they aren't on the same level because they aren't wearing one. And those jerks who say... I am better than you because I am wearing one.

[Eclipse]

Professional in what country?

The official sport of the US is NASCAR and we wear ballcaps!

As to the elite nonsense - we have thousands of valued members in CAP who perform all sorts of good works for their community and
their country.  They attend good training activities, learn to be self-sufficient in the field, and on a pretty regular basis participate successfully
as a piece in the national ES puzzle, there's no one, however, who's "elite".  Not in comparison internally, nor in comparison to other organizations
that have similar goals and members as we do.

NESA, HMRS, and NBB, all have their strengths and challenges, but there's also members all over the country whose contributions to CP and
AE would make attendance at one of the national ES schools look like a bivouac in comparison. Those people who spend weeks and months
planning encampments, flight academies, and running large units, groups, and wings, are pulling as much or more weight as the ES folks,
yet rarely are recognized in the visible way that the ES people are.  In a lot of cases, unit and wing staffers are carrying the whole administrative load
that allows the ES people to play at all, and are never even thanked for it, except as an afterthought.

The only thing "elite" about any CAP member is the fact that all of them are doing more than their peers who spend weekends on the couch
playing XWiiBox, updating TwitSpace, and whining about warm beer and "Desperate Housewives" being a re-run.

Other than that, the ES training that actually counts and allows you to play is exactly the same no matter where you get qualified, the mission
menu is exactly the same, and the operational rules are the same.  Anyne doing anything "elite", is either making it up out of whole cloth,
or doing things which are fun!, and exciting!, but ultimately irrelevant to actual CAP operations.

[PhoenixRisen]

They look really professional and I think, in a different color, might be a good distinguishing part of our CAP uniforms and might allow us to head more towards the USAF side of the uniform world.

While I do agree with you that I dig them and think that (if worn properly) they can present a professional image, how exactly will that allow us to head more towards the USAF side of the uniform world?  A blanket approval of berets for all of our members would be a move towards Army-style policy (unless the AF did something I'm unaware of).

[Nathan]

They're kinda useless in every sense of the word. At least the flight cap gives you an even tan...

[Major Carrales]

Here is one coming up....supposed some cadets are at an activity that legal requires the wear of a hard hat or helmet?  Like an aerospace factory or industrial area?

Would wearing goggles and other protective head covering for model rocketry be a violation of the uniform? 

Supposed cadets pose for a photo in a protective helmet and goggles prior to a rocket launch, how many incredulous sorts will start shoulding from atop the highest horse?

[Eclipse]

Here is one coming up....supposed some cadets are at an activity that legal requires the wear of a hard hat or helmet?  Like an aerospace factory or industrial area?

Would wearing goggles and other protective head covering for model rocketry be a violation of the uniform? 

Supposed cadets pose for a photo in a protective helmet and goggles prior to a rocket launch, how many incredulous sorts will start shoulding from atop the highest horse?

That's "equipment", not uniform.

[Major Carrales]

Here is one coming up....supposed some cadets are at an activity that legal requires the wear of a hard hat or helmet?  Like an aerospace factory or industrial area?

Would wearing goggles and other protective head covering for model rocketry be a violation of the uniform? 

Supposed cadets pose for a photo in a protective helmet and goggles prior to a rocket launch, how many incredulous sorts will start shoulding from atop the highest horse?

That's "equipment", not uniform.

I am aware of that...however, should I ever take a photo for publication I can already imagine the sorts of comments from CAPTALKER....Those goggles are regulation, that helmet is not in regulation...and so on and so forth.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

#1 I don't know who said NASCAR is the official sport of the United States, but I'm pretty sure that's unofficial.  is it because it's easy to follow? He's making a left turn, pulling out in front, there's another left turn coming up, let's see what he does... 
I'm just kidding.
Ball caps are not professional in my opinion, neither are PCs when next to a beret, you look at one person wearing a PC and standing next to him is someone wearing a beret, which one looks better? Which one looks cleaner and neater in appearance? That is my point, give me a little bit and I'll show you what I mean.