The King Is Dead, Long Live The King

[FARRIER]

Unfortunately, I don't think anything that isn't grey will even be considered.

[humor/observation]

The wearing of the ball cap with the aviator combo, I think I figured out where it came from, http://www.air-america.net/images/CASI/casi5.jpg

As far as all grey, switch the blazer to grey, http://www.air-america.net/images/AAM/uniforms/classa-2.jpg

[NCRblues]

SO...anything the Nat/CC says is rumors and innuendo? .... best of luck with that.... 

[LGM30GMCC]

Please see the current USAF uniform regulation at http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

I do not see anything in that regulation that states overweight Active/Reserve/Guard Air Force personnel (or retired personnel) CAN NOT wear an Air Force uniform.     I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause.  Most squadrons don't even have a scale.   Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms.    IF a uniform fits properly and the individuals wearing it meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt"  
RM

That's because there are other regulations that govern USAF Height and Weight. Failure to comply with them is handled in other ways. If you do not meet Height/Weight your 'being out of the limits to wear the uniform' is the least of your issues. However, you are still in the USAF, and still must be in uniform.

The USAF has been kicking people out left and right that fail to meet the PT standards. Usually those outside height/weight requirements are going to have an issue with the PT test. Before those of you who go 'But I'm super muscle man! I weigh too much because of that' they do a BMI measurement to determine you are fit to serve. And if you have some medical issue that is causing you to balloon, and it hasn't been noted before, but can be diagnosed the USAF either treats it, or medically discharges your ass.

I know it's hard for some people to believe, but the AFI for uniforms is probably one of the least discussed regulations in the USAF. We have thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations. I highly doubt anyone really knows what's in all of them. Hell, one of the regulations we follow references the requirements to a medical AFI. If I have a question about that medical AFI...I don't read that AFI, I ask a doctor.


As to the Commonwealth countries use of their respective service uniforms...
Their volunteer officers are actually commissioned officers who go through military training. Yeah...imagine that. They are also paid part-time. You can bet they have a lot more ammo to say 'you will meet X Y and Z' rules about uniforms/height/weight when they can stop the pay or remove you. Additionally, their uniforms are issued to them at zero cost to the member. They also have a group of 'civilian instructors' who do not wear uniforms but hold zero command authority in their organization. They also have no operational mission, and are a heck of a lot more like JROTC than they are like CAP.

They are far, far more over toward the military side of the volunteer professional spectrum, and as a result they are also under a lot more scrutiny and control of their parent organization. It has its benefits, and its draw backs. Folks want all the carrots, money, and benefits the USAF could provide, but they sure as hell don't seem to want the control that would actually bring with it as a caveat. I am willing to bet, in order for CAP to really 'be like the RCAC' or whatever, we would have USAF officers in charge at the high end.

[EMT-83]

SO...anything the Nat/CC says is rumors and innuendo? .... best of luck with that.... 

Let's stick to the facts.

In her presentation, General Courter made numerous references to the existing G/W and blazer uniforms. The last slide mentioned a future need to standardize the colors used for those uniforms, a viewpoint shared by many on this board.

The innuendo was that General Courter said that all future uniforms need to be gray and that rumor has been spread ever since.

Nowhere did she mention the development of new uniforms, let alone express a desire of what color they should be.

Unfortunately, if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the new truth.

[FARRIER]

Please see the current USAF uniform regulation at http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

I do not see anything in that regulation that states overweight Active/Reserve/Guard Air Force personnel (or retired personnel) CAN NOT wear an Air Force uniform.     I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause.  Most squadrons don't even have a scale.   Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms.    IF a uniform fits properly and the individuals wearing it meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt"  
RM

I am willing to bet, in order for CAP to really 'be like the RCAC' or whatever, we would have USAF officers in charge at the high end.

Which was viable model for us because CAP did have that structure in the past (Our history shows due to budget and other considerations our structure was changed).

Respectfully,

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Don't you honestly think that if a new uniform to replace the grey/white was in the works, General Courter would have said something about that?  Or Ned, who knows more about the inner workings of CAP than most of us ever will?  Or that there would have been a moratorium placed on any uniform changes?

Re the Commonwealth countries: It is true that the Royal Canadian Air Cadets and the UK Air Training Corps are led by adults who are a special kind of reservist (Cadet Instructor Cadre and RAF Volunteer Reserve - Training, respectively).

I don't believe that is the case with the Australian Air Force Cadets (except for serving RAAF members who become adult instructors) or the New Zealand Air Training Corps.

The UK ATC is headed by a serving RAF officer, Air Commodore (O-7 equivalent) Barbara Cooper.

All do have to go through an initial training period - 8 days in the AAFC, 2 1/2 days of distance learning, 16 days of in-house learning for the RCAirC.

Believe me, I've seen photos of adult leaders in all those branches with H/W standards that would completely DQ them from wearing the CAP AF uniform.

[Chief2009]

I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause.  Most squadrons don't even have a scale.   Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms.    IF a uniform fits properly and the individuals wearing it meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt"  
RM

That's the problem right there. People don't want to bring up what can be a touchy issue of weight or enforce the rules we have.

As for the money spent of AF style, that can be fixed by presenting your expectations when they join.

"Your application says you're 5'10", do you weigh more than 213lbs?"

If they do, you tell then right then and there that they will need to wear corporate and that wear of the AF-style will not be tolerated, unless of course, they drop the required weight. That way they do not waste money on uniforms they cannot wear.

If they try to fight you on it, remind them that as a Senior Member, they need to be setting the example for cadets, and as we all know, the majority of cadets know 39-1 better than most Seniors.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^Which is why I said that even though I think the G/W blows chunks, I have a pair of grey uniform pants in my closet in case my physical in January shows me over the weight limit...it'll be close, I think.  I have side effects of medication that make me gain weight, unfortunately.

I don't want to set that bad example for others (seniors as well as cadets) by wearing the uniform improperly.

[Skydude61]

who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.

[davidsinn]

who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.

Only cadets are authorized that jacket.

[titanII]

who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.

I wear the new style. It's all I could find at my local Army-Navy store that fit me. Tbh I prefer the look of the old style service coat, and I wish I had found one. It looks much more military IMO. Although I think that the fabric could use an update, to make it look more modern. Something like a tighter weave, and the darker color of the new-style service coat.
Basically, the same cut as the old-style but with the fabric of the new style. Just my humble opinion.
Opinions?

[SAR-EMT1]

who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.

Only cadets are authorized that jacket.

99% of our cadets still wear the 4 button coat.
Still very serviceable and the kids cadets are able to make them look sharp

[NCRblues]

who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.

Only cadets are authorized that jacket.

99% of our cadets still wear the 4 button coat.
Still very serviceable and the kids cadets are able to make them look sharp

99%? Um...no... maybe 65% but we are getting more and more of the "new kind" as that is all the AF is issuing for years now, and more and more are showing up in surplus stores and other odd places for cadets to get.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Sigh...the "Tony Nelson" jacket.  I still have one hanging in my closet with blue nameplate attached.





I never have been able to figure out what ribbons he had, except that it looks like he had an AF OSU ribbon.

I remember rumours when the Tony McPeak uniform came out that CAP was going to keep that uniform and get metal grade back...I would have been all in favour of that, the uniform was better-looking IMO and it would have given the "distinctiveness" that so many harp about.

We have a couple of cadets who still wear it and make it look good.

[Eclipse]

I remember rumours when the Tony McPeak uniform came out that CAP was going to keep that uniform and get metal grade back...

Where would it have been worn?  The whole point of McPeak was that it didn't have metal grade on it, but instead used Navy-type sleeve stripes.

[Major Lord]

We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as  way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped  Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........

Major Lord

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Where would it have been worn?  The whole point of McPeak was that it didn't have metal grade on it, but instead used Navy-type sleeve stripes.

Oops.

I wasn't clear enough.

The rumour I heard is that CAP was going to keep the Tony Nelson uniform and revert to metal grade.  Whether that also meant metal collar brass, I don't know.

I also heard another one around the same time that we were going to adopt the Tony McPeak uniform with either light blue (kind of RAF-style, I suppose)...



or (yech) grey sleeve stripes.

I only ever personally saw one person wearing the McPeak uniform - a Ch. Captain.

I would have been quite happy to keep the Tony Nelson uniform, except that supplies would eventually run out.

[titanII]

who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.

Only cadets are authorized that jacket.

99% of our cadets still wear the 4 button coat.
Still very serviceable and the kids cadets are able to make them look sharp

99%? Um...no... maybe 65% but we are getting more and more of the "new kind" as that is all the AF is issuing for years now, and more and more are showing up in surplus stores and other odd places for cadets to get.

Sorry for the nitpicking, but: in my experience it's about 50/50.

[davedove]

We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as  way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped  Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........

Major Lord

She even managed to get Majors Nelson and Healey to discredit a fellow officer, the unfortunate Dr. Bellows.  Oh, the depths of her plot are astounding.

[Major Lord]

We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as  way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped  Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........

Major Lord

She even managed to get Majors Nelson and Healey to discredit a fellow officer, the unfortunate Dr. Bellows.  Oh, the depths of her plot are astounding.

I am sure as soon as they finished gaslighting Doctor Bellows, they would have been able to pin all their active espionage on him, and he would commit "suicide", since Psychiatrist's have a tendency to do this.....brilliant!

Major Lord