Senior member NCOs and pullover sweater

[spacecommand]

Here's a topic for the uniform junkies.

Autumn and winter is coming so I thought of this topic (since I have a new Senior Member NCO at my unit).

39-1 says NCOs should wear "embroidered grade insignia on gray epaulet sleeve" of course, vanguard only sells blank epaulet sleeves, they don't even embroider the grade on (we asked they said they don't do it).  Note that Vanguard says "pin on rank" to the blank sleeve of course, that is not proper regulation according to 39-1.

Sleeve chevrons are not authorized for the pullover sweater (not even in the Air Force). 

This is not a pressing issue, and probably only affects the miniscule amounts of Senior Member NCOs out there, but they do exist and it's a matter to discuss.  Of course I could simply say "don't wear the sweater", but that takes the joy out of the conversation.

I guess the main point is, where do you get embroidered NCO epaulet sleeves? 

Another point to this is that vanguard is selling an item with an incorrect description, instead of offering embroidered option, they sell the blank one and tell people to pin the rank on, which is incorrect according to 39-1 which says "embroidered".

http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-epaulet-enlisted-senior-member-male-p-7207.html

[tsrup]

If vanguard is refusing to make items that are required by our regulations, then they are failing to fulfill their obligation as our sole contracted supplier.  This would be a good gripe to send up the chain to NHQ.

As a stopgap measure, I would suggest taking the blank epaulet sleeves to an embroidery shop, and have the NCO grade embroidered on each one. 

[MIKE]

IIRC at one point I saw some embroidered ones that were special order... you have to ask.

[spacecommand]

Asked about the sleeves, the answer was NO, also their description for the item on their website is incorrect (NCOs do not pin on their rank).

When asked to personalize the Leather name-tag for the flight suit with NCO grade, the answer was YES (NCO grades are not listed on the website dropdown menu for grades).

[Eclipse]

Asked about the sleeves, the answer was NO, also their description for the item on their website is incorrect (NCOs do not pin on their rank).

Military NCO's might not, but who says CAP members don't?

[spacecommand]

If you can kindly point to where it says "pin on" grade/rank in 39-1 or any other cap manual that would be great.

I think it's pretty specific when it says "embroidered grade insignia on gray epaulet sleeve"

[Eclipse]

Well, neither exists, so now what?  This demonstrates why seniors should just stay on the standard track and not over think the grade situation.

[spacecommand]

Should NCOs exist or not exist and follow the standard track is not the topic of discussion.

[Eclipse]

Not NCO's, their insignia - neither proper grade insignia exists for this application, but it does point to the afterthought status of that situation.

BTW - you've got a broken graphic in your sig.

[spacecommand]

fixed (removed dead link), thanks, didn't show up on firefox, but showed up on my android tablet's browser as an error.

I will recommend they visit the local dry cleaners to see what they can stitch up. 

Like I said, not a pressing issue that probably only affects the small miniscule number of NCOs out there.

[Eclipse]

That would be a good fundraiser for a unit - getting them embroidered, or maybe someone could find something at Michael's, etc., that would be close,
though the silver stitch would be hard to replicate, even for a pro, especially as an after run of an already done sleeve.

The wrath of VG would be a risk, though.

You said VG can't do 1-off embroidery for this?

[spacecommand]

Didn't the old CAP Marketplace use to have something like this?

Wrath of vanguard might be if you got gray cloth, sewed them into an epaulet sleeve with the letters "CAP" onto them along with grade insignia and sold the whole package. 

Not sure if they can get you if you offered a service where someone provided a blank epaulet (purchased from vanguard) to sew the insignia on, you're not selling the CAP item, you're providing personalization/tailoring service (not sure if vanguard has a trademark for reproducing air force chevrons or not).  I'm no lawyer here.

[MSgt Van]

Some NCO ranks are available in the gray sleeves. My MSgt chevrons were off the shelf; my SMSgt counterpart had to wait almost a year for Vanguard to produce a set.

[PHall]

I know a member who cut out the embroidered SMSgt insignia from a blue epaulet sleeve and sewed it to a blank grey one.
Looked pretty good.