% of senior members that are former and/or current military?

Started by Woodsy, August 30, 2011, 10:37:37 pm

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Woodsy

I was asked this by a perspective member today, and had no answer.  After a little research on NHQ's website, looking at the current fact sheet, etc, I've coming up with nothing.  Does anyone have any statistics for senior member demographics?  Average age, % former military, gender, etc? 

lordmonar

Simply from an personal experince point of view....I would say that the abourn 50% of SM are former military.

This may be situational....my squadrons have all been on or very near military bases......
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

SarDragon

Total guesses here.

Former/current military: 15%; down from 25%, 20 years ago; down from 35%, 20 years before that. The numbers started going down when the draft ended.

Average age: 50, on the rise. If you break it up into units with cadets, and units without, 38, and 62 respectively.

Gender: 85% male, probably pretty constant over the years.

I don't think I've ever seen any real numbers out there at any time during my membership. The info can be tracked from membership apps, but I'm not sure anybody actually does that.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

RiverAux

My guess would be 20%. 

I've often thought that veteran status should be tracked in eservices.  I think having some hard numbers would probably be helpful in increasing credibility.  Even if it isn't a majority, which it isn't, it is certainly much higher than the percentage of vets in the US population in general. 

Extremepredjudice

I'd be more interested in which service is the majority?

I'd put my money on navy...
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

SamFranklin

This is an interesting question, but you're not likely to find an empirically-based answer. Why? CAP is not tasked with inviting veterans (per se) to continue to serve through CAP membership. If there is no mission, there will be no data collected to answer your question. As soon as you start tracking the number of Zulus who are aircrew-rated, for example, you'll beg the question, Why don't we have more Zulus rated? And with that, you're spending time and resources on a tangential, non-mission issue.

RiverAux

Well, CAP does specifically attempt to encourage membership by veterans by giving them credit for some professional development program and for some more advanced rank is available.  I'm not aware of any similar programs to benefit specific ethnic groups. 

SarDragon

Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 30, 2011, 11:12:36 pm
I'd be more interested in which service is the majority?

I'd put my money on navy...


Nah. AF or Army.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

ol'fido

Didn't we have a poll about this a while back? Or was that just ex-mil on CT? ???
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

SarDragon

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Stonewall

If it helps, here are 2 polls I did at Veterans Day here on CAP Talk.

Poll 1 and Poll 2.

In my 20+ years of CAP experience, I'd say military veterans made up more than 50% of senior members.  Of course I was in a squadron in Florida that had 3 (now 2) large Navy bases within 30 miles of the squadron and then in our Nation's Capital.  So yeah, it may be different in the back woods of West [by God] Virginia or Podunk, Mississippi.

GroundHawg

In my squadron 5 out of 21 SM's are vets. 1 Navy, 3 Army and 1 Army/Navy/Air Force.

Pump Scout

I'm thinking our squadron is about 40%-ish former military for seniors. Maybe a little more, there's a handful of folks who don't talk much about their pasts...

ol'fido

Well, as I remember, the last poll had slightly more former Army types than AF ones????
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Walkman

In my unit we have 13 SMs, of those, 8 are current or former military.

jeders

I finally went through and counted, and out of 28 SMs in my squadron, 16 (57%) are current or former AD/Guard/Reserve, plus one cadet at the academy.  Of those 17 people, 16 (94%) are/were/will be AF. We meet on an AF base in a heavily military town with lots of retirees, and so the numbers are probably skewed a little bit. My guess would be that throughout the organization, the numbers are around a third to half of all SMs have military experience. Also, I would guess that the Army holds the highest percentage, followed by AF, then Navy/Marines, then coasties.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Camas

Quote from: RiverAux on August 30, 2011, 11:02:05 pm
My guess would be 20%. I've often thought that veteran status should be tracked in eservices.  I think having some hard numbers would probably be helpful in increasing credibility.  Even if it isn't a majority, which it isn't, it is certainly much higher than the percentage of vets in the US population in general.


I'm with you on both counts. Some years ago a national commander told me it was about 20% and I have no reason to believe that's changed much.

MSG Mac

The CAP application does have a line asking about military service and highest grade held. If needed I am sure that can answer that question.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

RiverAux

Well, only if there is some giant file of original application forms sitting around somewhere.  And then you'd need to send someone in to pick out the 30,000 of those that are current members....  It COULD be put in the database, but hasn't. 

RADIOMAN015

September 03, 2011, 01:32:20 am #19 Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 01:37:04 am by RADIOMAN015
Quote from: Camas on August 31, 2011, 05:44:03 pm
Quote from: RiverAux on August 30, 2011, 11:02:05 pm
My guess would be 20%. I've often thought that veteran status should be tracked in eservices.  I think having some hard numbers would probably be helpful in increasing credibility.  Even if it isn't a majority, which it isn't, it is certainly much higher than the percentage of vets in the US population in general.


I'm with you on both counts. Some years ago a national commander told me it was about 20% and I have no reason to believe that's changed much.

So based upon the above military veterans stats,  I guess it would be safe to say that Civil Air Patrol is the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force ??? :angel:
RM

DakRadz


a2capt

The Wind blows again.. like squelch breaking in a quiet radio room..

NCRblues

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 03, 2011, 01:32:20 am
Quote from: Camas on August 31, 2011, 05:44:03 pm
Quote from: RiverAux on August 30, 2011, 11:02:05 pm
My guess would be 20%. I've often thought that veteran status should be tracked in eservices.  I think having some hard numbers would probably be helpful in increasing credibility.  Even if it isn't a majority, which it isn't, it is certainly much higher than the percentage of vets in the US population in general.


I'm with you on both counts. Some years ago a national commander told me it was about 20% and I have no reason to believe that's changed much.

So based upon the above military veterans stats,  I guess it would be safe to say that Civil Air Patrol is the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force ??? :angel:
RM


Trolling again i see....
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 03, 2011, 01:32:20 am
So based upon the above military veterans stats,  I guess it would be safe to say that Civil Air Patrol is the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force ??? :angel:
RM


Oh, Bog in Devon... >:( ::)

RM, it doesn't mean a bloody thing whether or not 100% or 0% of a unit's membership are PS WRT their status as CAP members goes.

The only service not represented in my unit's prior service people is the CG, unless my Auxiliary service counts...no, it doesn't, I know that.

I can think of one Air National Guard, one Air Force Reserve, one active AF, one active Army, a former member that was a retired Marine, and another former member who had been active Navy, Air National Guard and then retired Air Force Reserve.

I can think of one cadet who went Army, one Air Force and one AFROTC.

I'd guess that a unit based in an area with military installations would have more PS than units that are not, but YMM wildly V.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: a2capt on September 03, 2011, 05:52:35 am
The Wind blows again.. like squelch breaking in a quiet radio room..


Or like another kind of wind breaking.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

ol'fido

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 03, 2011, 01:32:20 am
Quote from: Camas on August 31, 2011, 05:44:03 pm
Quote from: RiverAux on August 30, 2011, 11:02:05 pm
My guess would be 20%. I've often thought that veteran status should be tracked in eservices.  I think having some hard numbers would probably be helpful in increasing credibility.  Even if it isn't a majority, which it isn't, it is certainly much higher than the percentage of vets in the US population in general.


I'm with you on both counts. Some years ago a national commander told me it was about 20% and I have no reason to believe that's changed much.

So based upon the above military veterans stats,  I guess it would be safe to say that Civil Air Patrol is the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force ??? :angel:
RM
Nooooooo, we're NOT the CIVILIAN auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force. We're the "WANNA BE MILITARY" auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force. You've found us out. There's no hiding it now! ::)
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

SAR-EMT1

In the decade I've been with CAP, I have only encountered three SM's in my unit  (out of 50 or so) over the years that were NOT military.
(Not including myself)

Of those two were women, one of whom was married to a retired AF Officer. One was a man who tried to enlist and was 4F'd.
The remaining female might yet enlist in the Guard.

In my unit the overwhelming majority were prior Army enlisted (mostly Guard) Approx 50 percent of SM's.
20 % USAF (Officer and enlisted) 25 % USMC (enlisted) One prior Navy (0-5 Skyhawk pilot) One prior USCG (Helo crew chief), one Merchant Mariner.
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student

Woodsy

I'm a former green beret...  Before that I was a navy seal, but only after leaving the world of delta force....  That's all after I turned down a spot at the CIA...

Right...

Seriously, I asked this as a SERIOUS question to help answer a potential member's question. Let's not turn this into a joke.

I think that all (except maybe 1?) of the posters here realize that the percentage of former/current military has absolutely nothing to do with CAP's status as an auxiliary of the USAF... 

From my personal experience in my squadron... of about 50 senior members, only a very few (including myself) are lifelong civilians. Most are retired/former but there are a few AD guys on that rolls that we don't see to often. But then again, my squadron is in a city with 3 major Navy bases within 45 minutes...  4 until 10 years ago..That said, we have every branch of service represented, including all of the guards and reserves. 

Since this is the only squadron I have ever been a member of, my view point on the subject is likely flawed due to location, so was just wondering what the national statistics were.  You would think this is something NHQ could and would keep track of easily...

ironputts

I am from the Northeast (New Jersey) and have been with Civil Air Patrol for twenty years now. If I could take a stab at how many senior members I met were current or former military it would be 20 - 25 percent. I have met all service branches during that time and would say the majority were Army and Navy. I maybe prejudice in that regard as I was Army. Most like myself would comment they were but we really didnt spend time talking about our military experiences. Cureently in my squadron we have 10 senior members and only three were former military (one Army and two navy). We have had local and state law enforcement come to our meetings and was surprised how few of them were prior service. I remember when I first joined CAP there were many more rior military around. I guess the veterans of old have passed on and there are fewer volunteer military members joining our organization.

I have been honored these past twenty years being with this organization and especially all the young people I have worked with. As in many of the topics in CAPTALK I have had the same issues. You make the best of it and move forward! Looking forward attending National Staff College. I will let you know the military percentages there when I return.
Greg Putnam
Lt. Col., CAP

flyboy53

I really think all this conjecture is flawed by the numbers of people responding to this string.

Perhaps NHQ can be persuaded to have individuals update their e-service records and then do a statistical run from that information. That would answer the question once and for all.

Personally, I'm almost certain that the veteran/military statistics are a lot higher than you think.

I have never served in a CAP unit that had more straight civilian non-military than veterans or current service members.  Sometimes our members come from some interesting backgrounds. I once served with a former U.S. Merchant Marine officer and know of a current CAP major who is a CIA emplyee.

I would also be curious of the current CAP members who are veterans of foreign military services. For example, the PA Wing once had a CAP Major who flew Hurricanes with the RAF in WW II. NY Wing has a former RCAF fighter pilot who still serves as an AE Officer and the wing once had an Israeli Air Force C-130 pilot. I also remember a CAP member, who was a fellow college student in Indiana, who had to leave college in the middle of his sophmore year to do mandatory service with the Israeli paratroopers.


Rowan

Quote from: flyboy1 on September 04, 2011, 12:54:35 pm
I have never served in a CAP unit that had more straight civilian non-military than veterans or current service members. 


My squadron is just the opposite.  Of 10 senior members, only three are prior military.

PHall

Quote from: Rowan on September 04, 2011, 02:32:44 pm
Quote from: flyboy1 on September 04, 2011, 12:54:35 pm
I have never served in a CAP unit that had more straight civilian non-military than veterans or current service members. 


My squadron is just the opposite.  Of 10 senior members, only three are prior military.


Considering that less then 10% of the US population ever serves in the military these days. That's not that unusual or surprising.

RADIOMAN015

September 04, 2011, 04:27:56 pm #32 Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 04:34:11 pm by RADIOMAN015
Of the total of what I would consider "active" senior adult squadron members:
33% are U.S. military veterans (of which 60% of the veterans total are military retirees).
67% are not military veterans but 27% of that total wanted to join the military but couldn't due to not meeting military medical entrance standards (that could not be waived).
RM

ironputts

Quote from: ironputts on September 04, 2011, 12:08:13 pm
I am from the Northeast (New Jersey) and have been with Civil Air Patrol for twenty years now. If I could take a stab at how many senior members I met were current or former military it would be 20 - 25 percent. I have met all service branches during that time and would say the majority were Army and Navy. I maybe prejudice in that regard as I was Army. Most like myself would comment they were but we really didnt spend time talking about our military experiences. Cureently in my squadron we have 10 senior members and only three were former military (one Army and two navy). We have had local and state law enforcement come to our meetings and was surprised how few of them were prior service. I remember when I first joined CAP there were many more rior military around. I guess the veterans of old have passed on and there are fewer volunteer military members joining our organization.

I have been honored these past twenty years being with this organization and especially all the young people I have worked with. As in many of the topics in CAPTALK I have had the same issues. You make the best of it and move forward! Looking forward attending National Staff College. I will let you know the military percentages there when I return.


Just got back from NSC 2011 and have the statistics on former military who attended. We had 57 attendees and 32 were former military. So that is 56% and this maybe not be indicative for all of CAP but something to look at regarding this subject. Any thoughts?
Greg Putnam
Lt. Col., CAP

davidsinn

Quote from: ironputts on October 24, 2011, 12:59:14 am
Quote from: ironputts on September 04, 2011, 12:08:13 pm
I am from the Northeast (New Jersey) and have been with Civil Air Patrol for twenty years now. If I could take a stab at how many senior members I met were current or former military it would be 20 - 25 percent. I have met all service branches during that time and would say the majority were Army and Navy. I maybe prejudice in that regard as I was Army. Most like myself would comment they were but we really didnt spend time talking about our military experiences. Cureently in my squadron we have 10 senior members and only three were former military (one Army and two navy). We have had local and state law enforcement come to our meetings and was surprised how few of them were prior service. I remember when I first joined CAP there were many more rior military around. I guess the veterans of old have passed on and there are fewer volunteer military members joining our organization.

I have been honored these past twenty years being with this organization and especially all the young people I have worked with. As in many of the topics in CAPTALK I have had the same issues. You make the best of it and move forward! Looking forward attending National Staff College. I will let you know the military percentages there when I return.


Just got back from NSC 2011 and have the statistics on former military who attended. We had 57 attendees and 32 were former military. So that is 56% and this maybe not be indicative for all of CAP but something to look at regarding this subject. Any thoughts?


In my unit we are 0% military. In my group I'd take a WAG at less than 15%.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

titanII

My unit is also 0% former/current military. However, we do have some former cadets in the military.
No longer active on CAP talk


Thrashed

1 out of 15 in ours. Navy. No bases of any kind anywhere nearby.

Save the triangle thingy

spacecommand

Of the number of active members that regularly show up to the meetings in my unit, I would calculate 66% of them were prior military or current active duty.  Of the branches of services, it's a split of Navy and Air Force, both NCOs and Officers, we have do have one retired army.  In addition to spouses of current and former military members, the rest of our membership comes from all backgrounds from students to surgeons. 
No matter if they were prior military or have no military experience at all and the occasional navy or air force joke, we all work together in a professional manner to get the missions done. 

I find the situations change and vary throughout each unit, some places might have higher amounts of current or former military personnel then other places.  (location to military base, etc).

It can work both ways for the unit, having an experience military member can be a very good thing for a unit, but it can also be a bad thing for the unit as well, it depends on the person.  Same works for non-military members as well. 

In reality, it doesn't matter much to me if 70% or if 7% of the membership was military or not military.
Pretty much in the end for me it's about getting the jobs assigned to us in CAP done and not about what % of military or nonmilitary you have.

GroundHawg

Quote from: PHall on September 04, 2011, 02:37:23 pm
Quote from: Rowan on September 04, 2011, 02:32:44 pm
Quote from: flyboy1 on September 04, 2011, 12:54:35 pm
I have never served in a CAP unit that had more straight civilian non-military than veterans or current service members. 


My squadron is just the opposite.  Of 10 senior members, only three are prior military.


Considering that less then 10% of the US population ever serves in the military these days. That's not that unusual or surprising.


Its actually less than 1% now... so sad

SAR-EMT1

Quote from: GroundHawg on October 26, 2011, 12:55:06 pm
Quote from: PHall on September 04, 2011, 02:37:23 pm
Quote from: Rowan on September 04, 2011, 02:32:44 pm
Quote from: flyboy1 on September 04, 2011, 12:54:35 pm
I have never served in a CAP unit that had more straight civilian non-military than veterans or current service members. 


My squadron is just the opposite.  Of 10 senior members, only three are prior military.


Considering that less then 10% of the US population ever serves in the military these days. That's not that unusual or surprising.


Its actually less than 1% now... so sad


Just wish the med req's weren't so anal. Otherwise I would still be in... ::)
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student

Salty

I've never really ran across that many prior military members in CAP when I was a cadet.  I think the most I ever saw in one place was the squadron that met near the USAF base I was assigned to.
CAP Cadet 1989-1994
CAP Senior Member 1994-1995, 2011-current
USAF Aeromedical Technician 1994-1998

Buzz

My experience in squadrons across the country over several years as a Cadet in the 1970s then as a Senior since the early 1990s indicates that in the 1970s about half of male SM were prior military, and now about 10% SM (male and female) are prior military, with another 10% prior CAP Cadets, JROTC, CGAux, SAR Posse, etc.

Trung Si Ma

13 seniors, 6 current / former military
13 seniors, 5 Former Cadets (1 Spaatz, 1 Eaker, 1 Phase IV Letter, 1 Earhart, 1 Arnold)
Freedom isn't free - I paid for it