To salute or not to salute?

[Extremepredjudice]

 officer125, if we adheared to your ways, our national commander would have to salute an airman... Don't you think THAT is scewed up?

[DakRadz]

I think my post (last on the first page) addressed the issue with a bit more tact and respect. I know it's the internet, but Extremeprejudice- you're addressing a C/Lt Col.

It isn't screwed up (ignoring the terminology)- a salute is a mark of respect. If CAP/CC chose to salute an Amn, then so be it. I believe the true intent of the "salute only those higher in rank than you" rule is this; no confusion about why a Colonel is saluting a 1st Lt, because the average person may not consider CAP.

[Extremepredjudice]

I think my post (last on the first page) addressed the issue with a bit more tact and respect. I know it's the internet, but Extremeprejudice- you're addressing a C/Lt col.

my apologies. I didn't know he was a c/lt col.

And I tend to be smart on forums...

[SarDragon]

I think my post (last on the first page) addressed the issue with a bit more tact and respect. I know it's the internet, but Extremeprejudice- you're addressing a C/Lt col.

my apologies. I didn't know he was a c/lt col.

And I tend to be smart on forums...

C/LtCol Priscilla (Pat) Temaat (sez so right in her sig line)

[Extremepredjudice]

 
*foot in mouth*

Sorry!

[Hawk200]

I think my post (last on the first page) addressed the issue with a bit more tact and respect. I know it's the internet, but Extremeprejudice- you're addressing a C/Lt col.

my apologies. I didn't know he was a c/lt col.

And I tend to be smart on forums...

C/LtCol Priscilla (Pat) Temaat (sez so right in her sig line)

In all fairness, I have Captalk configure so I don't see sig lines. Page loads faster, and I don't see the "fly."

[SarDragon]

Oh, the fly's been gone for a while.   :clap:

[EMT-83]

I think my post (last on the first page) addressed the issue with a bit more tact and respect. I know it's the internet, but Extremeprejudice- you're addressing a C/Lt col.

my apologies. I didn't know he was a c/lt col.

And I tend to be smart on forums...

The reference to COS in the post might have been a clue that the writer isn't a C/AB.

We're also familiar with the disrespectful attitude shown here by some anonymous posters.

[CAPC/officer125]

officer125, if we adheared to your ways, our national commander would have to salute an airman... Don't you think THAT is scewed up?

In my mind, no.
This may channel a little RM, but we are a volunteer civilian force that has been given permission to use AF property (uniforms etc). Any AD person, no matter the branch or rank, is earning pay and doing a job while wearing the same uniform (or their specific branch). Wouldn't it be a little out of wack if a volunteer firefighter didn't respect or started trying to up the paid fire chief, even though they are doing the same thing and wearing the same uniform? Yes. The respect the volunteer gives the chief would be the same as rendering a salute to any AD personnel by a CAP person.
I have several members of AD military in my family (2 enlisted and 1 officer, Army, Marines, and AF) and my mother and grandfather are both former ANG and the another grandfather former Navy. If I were in uniform and I walked up to them on the street, I would salute them. They may look at me funny since I am family and I would probably get a quizzical look from my 2 enlisted cousins until I explained to them that they have both been overseas and physically fought for my freedom to wear the uniform and I am just respecting the customs and courtesies that we all follow. This is no different then walking around on base, crossing paths with an airman fresh from basic. They are doing a job, getting paid for it, and have to be there doing this job for a required amount of time. We are participating in "hobby" or "club", paying to be a part of it, and can terminate our involvement whenever we want. The only thing similar about us is the fact that we wear the same uniform.

As far as the rank and gender confusion, s'ok stuff happens.

[lordmonar]

You are not respecting the customs and coutesies of our parent service when you make up your own rules.

Officers don't salute airman.

Generals don't salute 2d Lts.

Secondly....you do a major disservice to CAP with your attitude that this is just a hobby.

Yes we can quit when we want, and we don't have a time card to punch.....but what we do is important to the USAF.   Dispite what some people may say here or else where....the USAF cannot afford to lose the CAP and would be hard pressed to fill the gaps we would leave behind.

I worry that somone can get so high in the cadet program and not know this.....and I worry about what you may be teaching your cadets.

[CAPC/officer125]

You are not respecting the customs and coutesies of our parent service when you make up your own rules.

Officers don't salute airman.

Generals don't salute 2d Lts.

Secondly....you do a major disservice to CAP with your attitude that this is just a hobby.

Yes we can quit when we want, and we don't have a time card to punch.....but what we do is important to the USAF.   Dispite what some people may say here or else where....the USAF cannot afford to lose the CAP and would be hard pressed to fill the gaps we would leave behind.

I worry that somone can get so high in the cadet program and not know this.....and I worry about what you may be teaching your cadets.

I don't know if this is correct, but doesn't JROTC and ROTC require that their cadets salute any AD. If not, then I am mistaken. I know we aren't them, this may be where I got the mentality.

In saying that this is a hobby, its because we pay to do this as opposed to being paid to do it. I personally don't view CAP as a hobby, it is more my life, I do not know what my life would be like without it.

I know what we do is important. I do not argue with that.

As far as what I believe when it comes to saluting any AD personnel, it just comes down to respect. I don't remember passing this on to any other cadets, it is just what I believe and have only done it a few times due to my proximity to any AD military bases.

[Persona non grata]

You are not respecting the customs and coutesies of our parent service when you make up your own rules.

Officers don't salute airman.

Generals don't salute 2d Lts.

Secondly....you do a major disservice to CAP with your attitude that this is just a hobby.

Yes we can quit when we want, and we don't have a time card to punch.....but what we do is important to the USAF.   Dispite what some people may say here or else where....the USAF cannot afford to lose the CAP and would be hard pressed to fill the gaps we would leave behind.

I worry that somone can get so high in the cadet program and not know this.....and I worry about what you may be teaching your cadets.

I don't know if this is correct, but doesn't JROTC and ROTC require that their cadets salute any AD. If not, then I am mistaken. I know we aren't them, this may be where I got the mentality.

In saying that this is a hobby, its because we pay to do this as opposed to being paid to do it. I personally don't view CAP as a hobby, it is more my life, I do not know what my life would be like without it.

I know what we do is important. I do not argue with that.

As far as what I believe when it comes to saluting any AD personnel, it just comes down to respect. I don't remember passing this on to any other cadets, it is just what I believe and have only done it a few times due to my proximity to any AD military bases.

Go stand outside the NCO club and salute every NCO that walks by you and let us know how that worked out for you.

[lordmonar]

Well....when I was in AFJROTC and AFROTC.....we were not taught to salute all AD....only officers.

Your CAP publications clearly tells you who to salute and now where does it say you have to salute all AD personnel.

In fact is clearly says that CAP officers only have salute AD officers of higher grade.

As far as "passing this on to any cadet'....you are a C/Lt Col.....everything you do is, or should, be passed down simply because you do it.  You lead by example in everything that you do.

I understand that you respect all AD personnel....even the lowly AB still at basic training.......but you can show proper respect by simply giving them a greeting instead of rewriting the Customs and Courtisies to suit your own personal interpretation of them.

[CAPC/officer125]

Well....when I was in AFJROTC and AFROTC.....we were not taught to salute all AD....only officers.

Your CAP publications clearly tells you who to salute and now where does it say you have to salute all AD personnel.

In fact is clearly says that CAP officers only have salute AD officers of higher grade.

As far as "passing this on to any cadet'....you are a C/Lt Col.....everything you do is, or should, be passed down simply because you do it.  You lead by example in everything that you do.

I understand that you respect all AD personnel....even the lowly AB still at basic training.......but you can show proper respect by simply giving them a greeting instead of rewriting the Customs and Courtisies to suit your own personal interpretation of them.

Ok, like I said I was unsure on the JROTC and ROTC. And I guess its either been a while since I have read fully through my CAP publications.

My only refutation on the passing it on would be that its possible these days to not see the rank until its too late to do anything about saluting or not saluting. This is where the mentality of "when in doubt, salute" comes to play. 

[Hawk200]

My only refutation on the passing it on would be that its possible these days to not see the rank until its too late to do anything about saluting or not saluting. This is where the mentality of "when in doubt, salute" comes to play.

Saluting when in doubt isn't a bad thing, but I can tell you all kinds of stories of Airmen Basic being saluted because a person didn't see stripes. There's also the story told me by a senior NCO about the time he worked in the Pentagon. Another senior NCO mentioned to an Air Force member that he had "forgot his bars (lieutenants bars)" that morning. The airman replied, "I'm an Airman Basic, Sergeant."

I used to think that there was no reason that Air Force enlisted shouldn't wear insignia on headgear. Or I did, until I mentioned it to a friend one day, and he replied, "Why would we need to with our stripes as big as they are?" I have since changed my thinking for the simple fact that the logic is undeniable to any reasonable person.

There is a lesson there. If you're approaching someone in an Air Force utility uniform out doors, check the headgear. Nothing on it? Enlisted. It may get confusing if the individual is wearing subdued officer rank, and it might not be obvious, but you can glance at the upper arm from there. This can be done far faster than you can even think about it. Make it a habit, and you'll do it without thinking about it.

As to saluting enlisted, that isn't a consistent customs and courtesy behavior. And it presents problems with potentially making CAP appear as "wannabes" or "playing Air Force." "They" wonder when you do something that is out of the norm when it comes to something as simple as saluting. Pay attention to what they do, and follow it (unless it is something that is an obvious bad habit), and it gains their respect. Respect does go both ways.

I can appreciate your deference to military personnel, but I can honestly say it's going a little too far. If you feel strongly about, then thank a military member on occasion. A salute to an enlisted personnel makes them feel awkward. CAP is supposed to mirror them, act like them (somewhat). Something that comes across as "hero worship" can be uncomfortable, and no one wishes to associate with someone that makes them uncomfortable. We're people just like you, we have our own goals, and dreams, and headaches/heartaches. We also put our pants on one leg at a time, just like everybody else.

[lordmonar]

Worse then wannabe........just that they don't know.

I mean how professional do we look when a senior cadet does not know who/when to salute.

Makes you wonder what else that we are or are not teaching our cadets....and what our ES teams may be like.

[MIKE]

I think she gets the point.  You can stop the dog-pile.

[lordmonar]

I think she gets the point.  You can stop the dog-pile.

Copy all, RTB, out.

[NC Hokie]

Secondly....you do a major disservice to CAP with your attitude that this is just a hobby.

Agreed.  As I type this, hundreds (if not thousands) of North Carolina residents are grateful that CAP is more than just a hobby to the cadets and senior members that have been distributing food and water for the past several days.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Remember, too, about saluting not just commissioned officers, but warrant officers (although CWO-2 and above are commissioned...something not often touched upon because we have an AF-derived culture and the AF doesn't have WO's.