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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Summer 2011 National Board Agenda
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The CyBorg is destroyed
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« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2011, 10:42:58 PM »

Cadets typically look more AF because of their smaller guts. Maybe that's the hint?

That, plus the lack of grey hair/any hair.

But even with a fit-and-trim SM in the USAF-type uniform and a 19-year-old C/Capt...who's more likely to be confused with an AF officer?
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flyboy53
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« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2011, 01:14:44 AM »


I cannot even imagine that happening in today's CAP/AF... Nor that...someone would probably say, "No, you/we are CIVILIANS...no business operating a radio net station on an Air Force base...after all, some CAP member would probably start trolling for salutes and/or trying to use the Commissary/BX/Shopette/Class Six/gas station, etc....besides, we don't want to bother with uniforms/C&C's.

The sad part of the very tired argument is that a Reservist or National Guardsman/woman is actually a civilian unless they are on active duty like IADT, mobilizations or annual tours... all under federal law. That's the reason why they are paid four pay periods on a weekend and no BAS/BAQ or separate rations.

The truth of the matter is that we need to be prepared and ready to accept those opportunities if offered.
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cap235629
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« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2011, 01:27:19 AM »


I cannot even imagine that happening in today's CAP/AF... Nor that...someone would probably say, "No, you/we are CIVILIANS...no business operating a radio net station on an Air Force base...after all, some CAP member would probably start trolling for salutes and/or trying to use the Commissary/BX/Shopette/Class Six/gas station, etc....besides, we don't want to bother with uniforms/C&C's.

The sad part of the very tired argument is that a Reservist or National Guardsman/woman is actually a civilian unless they are on active duty like IADT, mobilizations or annual tours... all under federal law. That's the reason why they are paid four pay periods on a weekend and no BAS/BAQ or separate rations.

The truth of the matter is that we need to be prepared and ready to accept those opportunities if offered.
Incorrect, a reservist is subject to the UCMJ 24/7/365. A guardsman isn't unless on Federal orders.
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2011, 04:18:12 AM »



The sad part of the very tired argument is that a Reservist or National Guardsman/woman is actually a civilian unless they are on active duty like IADT, mobilizations or annual tours... all under federal law. That's the reason why they are paid four pay periods on a weekend and no BAS/BAQ or separate rations.

The truth of the matter is that we need to be prepared and ready to accept those opportunities if offered.
Incorrect, a reservist is subject to the UCMJ 24/7/365. A guardsman isn't unless on Federal orders.

 A National Guardsmen though is subject to the States version of Military laws.
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Michael P. McEleney
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« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2011, 04:30:55 AM »

My most important question is what can we take to the Auxiliary office at the Pentagon and say to the Air Staff, "we can offer this in the budget cuts"?  Based on the lessons of history, capabilities of today, and the modernizing Air Force?

We tried this with the VSAF program... that didn't appear to work too well.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2011, 05:17:25 AM »

My most important question is what can we take to the Auxiliary office at the Pentagon and say to the Air Staff, "we can offer this in the budget cuts"?  Based on the lessons of history, capabilities of today, and the modernizing Air Force?

If we can answer this, there is a very real possibility, depending on who is elected National CC, that those items would be taken right to where they need to go.

The problem with this idea is that the amount of any potential budget savings, in comparison to the deficit, is like a fart in a hurricane. It just won't make a significant difference.
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Dave Bowles
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NCRblues
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« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2011, 05:26:14 AM »

My most important question is what can we take to the Auxiliary office at the Pentagon and say to the Air Staff, "we can offer this in the budget cuts"?  Based on the lessons of history, capabilities of today, and the modernizing Air Force?

If we can answer this, there is a very real possibility, depending on who is elected National CC, that those items would be taken right to where they need to go.

The problem with this idea is that the amount of any potential budget savings, in comparison to the deficit, is like a fart in a hurricane. It just won't make a significant difference.

Very true, but it is also in how you spin it.

During the recent flooding in Missouri, Ks and Mo wings both flew several photography missions for the states and for FEMA. A state senator from Mo started to get haggled about spending soon after those missions, he immediately started saying how much "he" had saved the tax payers big $$$ by having caps small aircraft do it, rather than AF c-130s....

If we can get some "spin masters" to make it look great in certain key districts than we are golden. Every congressman out there wants to say "hey, look i saved you (insert ungodly amount here)" and what better way (for us) than with cap?  ;D
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« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2011, 11:13:06 AM »

My most important question is what can we take to the Auxiliary office at the Pentagon and say to the Air Staff, "we can offer this in the budget cuts"?  Based on the lessons of history, capabilities of today, and the modernizing Air Force?

We tried this with the VSAF program... that didn't appear to work too well.

I do not really have an opinion of VSAF because I don't know much of it in practicality.  That said, there are probably lessons learned there and there is perhaps a good list of things we can do to assist the AF.  My interest is in what those things are. 

The problem with this idea is that the amount of any potential budget savings, in comparison to the deficit, is like a fart in a hurricane. It just won't make a significant difference.

I don't know that the deficit itself is our thing.  Our thing is to see where we can assist our parent organization in being more effective and saving money.  We can - and should - also examine what other possible missions we can take from other Federal entities since Civil Air Patrol acts as the US Air Force Auxiliary when performing missions for any Federal entity.  That leaves a pretty broad range of mission possibilities.
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« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2011, 03:51:57 PM »

My most important question is what can we take to the Auxiliary office at the Pentagon and say to the Air Staff, "we can offer this in the budget cuts"?  Based on the lessons of history, capabilities of today, and the modernizing Air Force?

We tried this with the VSAF program... that didn't appear to work too well.

I do not really have an opinion of VSAF because I don't know much of it in practicality.  That said, there are probably lessons learned there and there is perhaps a good list of things we can do to assist the AF.  My interest is in what those things are. 

I think that the program came / comes with so many asterisks that those who would champion it were turned off from day one.
In a lot of cases it depended on people able to serve during normal working hours, doing things which were not remotely within the
scope of CAP's missions and which sometimes artificially "filled" a billet better served by a full-time Airman or civilian employee.

Like everything else CAP, there were a few high-visibility successes, but your marquee clients rarely make for a successful business.
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Angus
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« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2011, 07:08:25 PM »

As far agenda item 14 goes, I may have missed this answer in the thread so forgive me.  But if this passes should we expect to see an updated 39-1 at some point sooner rather than the later we've been waiting on?
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Maj. Richard J. Walsh, Jr.
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JC004
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« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2011, 09:56:19 PM »

Let's not get crazy.  We shouldn't be expecting a new uniform manual in a hurry.

What we DO NEED, HOWEVER (AND THIS IS DIRECTED AT WHATEVER OFFICER WINS NEXT WEEK AS CAP/CC) IS AN UPDATED ICL!  For now, let's stop confusing our poor new members and let them have a fighting chance with all this confusion.  They shouldn't have to print out the manual and every ICL, then go through the stuff with a marker to figure out which things still apply and which don't.  The changes were NONSENSE and someone needs to simplify this for people.  I've heard a lot about new members being TOTALLY confused by this silly set of ICLs.  The next National CC should publish an updated ICL within a week and make it easy!  One manual, one consolidated, updated ICL until we get stuff rolling with a new manual.
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davidsinn
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« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2011, 12:31:36 AM »

Let's not get crazy.  We shouldn't be expecting a new uniform manual in a hurry.

What we DO NEED, HOWEVER (AND THIS IS DIRECTED AT WHATEVER OFFICER WINS NEXT WEEK AS CAP/CC) IS AN UPDATED ICL!  For now, let's stop confusing our poor new members and let them have a fighting chance with all this confusion.  They shouldn't have to print out the manual and every ICL, then go through the stuff with a marker to figure out which things still apply and which don't.  The changes were NONSENSE and someone needs to simplify this for people.  I've heard a lot about new members being TOTALLY confused by this silly set of ICLs.  The next National CC should publish an updated ICL within a week and make it easy!  One manual, one consolidated, updated ICL until we get stuff rolling with a new manual.

Just merge the ICL into the end of the PDF that is 39-1. Five minutes and you're done. Should have been done years ago.
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David Sinn
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« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2011, 01:23:43 AM »

We also need to clear any and all obsolete documents off the national servers.

More times than not I Google a reg and the first hit is to the old version of the regulation hosted on the official servers.  You have to notice the
dates, and know there was a more recent one to catch the change.  I did that earlier today with 52-16 and the question about review board.

I'm all for keeping old copies available, but the need to be watermarked "obsolete" or "superseded" or something, else removed.
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JC004
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« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2011, 01:44:27 AM »

Just merge the ICL into the end of the PDF that is 39-1. Five minutes and you're done. Should have been done years ago.

Regardless of their physical location, one should not have to look through every change side-by-side to compare them and see if they are rescinded or themselves changed (or even changed several times).  You should be able to look at the regulation, then look through the changes to see if there is anything you need to worry about.  Simple and creates less issues. 

I've been to activities in the past several years where SMs (esp new SMs) have said "well this is the regulation," when in actuality, it WAS, but changed even before they did their sewing or whatever.  I've seen people VERY confused by the multitude of changes in the ICLs and there's no reason we can't fix it until there's an update.  The ICLs are ALREADY outside their authorized operating age so WHATEVER.  Let's just make it easier for people.

I am looking at them now.  Then, next week, I shall sneak up behind whoever the new CAP/CC is, get them to sign it, run away, and get it on the interweb tubes! 

We also need to clear any and all obsolete documents off the national servers.

More times than not I Google a reg and the first hit is to the old version of the regulation hosted on the official servers.  You have to notice the
dates, and know there was a more recent one to catch the change.  I did that earlier today with 52-16 and the question about review board.

I'm all for keeping old copies available, but the need to be watermarked "obsolete" or "superseded" or something, else removed.

I suspect this is an issue with the dreadful CMS.  It probably just saves stuff for all eternity and nobody manages the files.

Edit: I'm now working on what would be a consolidated and updated ICL for uniforms.  I just wanted to say...THIS IS FREAKING RIDICULOUS. 

I must know...I MUST KNOW what was going through these people's heads while they were doing this to us...seriously?
  I think that I now more fully understand the new SM who asked me for help understanding it and said something like "These people are really indecisive, aren't they?" 
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Summer 2011 National Board Agenda
 


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