keeping GTM insignia?

[Майор Хаткевич]

I always thought that the Knowledge base is "regs made easy", meaning they have to cite the reg they use to justify their answer.

[flyboy53]

Without quoting the reg, it's permanent -- just like pilot and observer wings.

Just a hint, the next time or you might try now. You can log into e-services, go to personal ES qualifications and enter yourself for the award. Once updated in e-services, you will see that the award is permanent and does not have an expiration date like normal ES qualifications.

[SAR-EMT1]

Why should GTM be any different?  IIRC the EMT badges and CPR patches are the ones that must be removed when no longer current.  If someone has to remove their GT badge, then you shouldn't wear AFSC etc badges you are no longer current in either.

According to Suzie Parker, the EMT badge is in the same category as the GTM badges and is not required to be removed if no longer current.

I would have a SERIOUS problem with this. In the event of a -albeit rare-  emergency at a meeting/mission the presence of the EMT badge (or MD/RN device) tells me that someone is certified and currently able to act in addition to the level of certification. IE Basic- EMT/ Senior- Intermediate/ Master- Paragod.   
If one who is wearing this badge is NOT currently certified as an EMS type the LEGAL ramifications regarding care rendered for all involved are HUGE. I have know people without medical certs to get slapped with fines in the thousands of dollars simply for applying a c-collar.


As far as the GTM badge... I would be ok with keeping that.

[Slim]

Why should GTM be any different?  IIRC the EMT badges and CPR patches are the ones that must be removed when no longer current.  If someone has to remove their GT badge, then you shouldn't wear AFSC etc badges you are no longer current in either.

According to Suzie Parker, the EMT badge is in the same category as the GTM badges and is not required to be removed if no longer current.

I would have a SERIOUS problem with this. In the event of a -albeit rare-  emergency at a meeting/mission the presence of the EMT badge (or MD/RN device) tells me that someone is certified and currently able to act in addition to the level of certification. IE Basic- EMT/ Senior- Intermediate/ Master- Paragod.   
If one who is wearing this badge is NOT currently certified as an EMS type the LEGAL ramifications regarding care rendered for all involved are HUGE. I have know people without medical certs to get slapped with fines in the thousands of dollars simply for applying a c-collar.


As far as the GTM badge... I would be ok with keeping that.

Doesn't seem to matter if we like it or not (for the record, I don't either), there's nothing in the regulations saying it has to come off if their license lapses.  Granted, a properly conducted conversation could eliminate the problem and the badge.  But, if the recipient of that conversation didn't see things the same way, and told us to pound sand, there's nothing we can do about it.

Prior to the EMT badge, we were allowed to wear any patch displaying the star of life, and the CAPM 39-1 of that time included verbiage that it had to be removed if the wearer was not currently certified.  No such language exists for the current badge.

[Eclipse]

If one who is wearing this badge is NOT currently certified as an EMS type the LEGAL ramifications regarding care rendered for all involved are HUGE. I have know people without medical certs to get slapped with fines in the thousands of dollars simply for applying a c-collar.

The legal ramifications are not based on what badge they are wearing, they are based on the care they rendered, or the fraud perpetrated by telling
people they are current.

[ol'fido]

Is CAP the only place they have discussions like this? Do they ask these questions in the RM? There are hundreds if not thousands of military personnel that wore a set of jump wings on their uniform today who have not jumped out of a perfectly good airplane since they made the last of their 5 exits at jump school. That may have been three weeks or thirty years ago. Nobody is going to worry about whether they should be wearing the wings whether are on jump status or not. They did the work, they earned the badge, they wear it. This would include the EMT or GT badge for us. At one time you did the work, you earned the badge, and you wear it. It signifies achievement  not currency. To say otherwise is just splitting hairs but that seems to be the trend here on CT.

[SARDOC]

According to Suzie Parker, the EMT badge is in the same category as the GTM badges and is not required to be removed if no longer current.

The Word I got from Suzie Parker today was that the EMT badge is currently approved at all three levels but that it must be removed if no longer currently licensed/certified.  I disagree with that but that's the word I got from her.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Is CAP the only place they have discussions like this? Do they ask these questions in the RM? There are hundreds if not thousands of military personnel that wore a set of jump wings on their uniform today who have not jumped out of a perfectly good airplane since they made the last of their 5 exits at jump school. That may have been three weeks or thirty years ago. Nobody is going to worry about whether they should be wearing the wings whether are on jump status or not. They did the work, they earned the badge, they wear it. This would include the EMT or GT badge for us. At one time you did the work, you earned the badge, and you wear it. It signifies achievement  not currency. To say otherwise is just splitting hairs but that seems to be the trend here on CT.

The difference is that in the Army you are supposed to always remember your training and job no matter what  you have been doing for the past ten years. So if I were to go back in, I would still be expected to be proficient in AASLT Operations, and be a proficient Infantryman no matter if I were pushing papers. There is no training lapse date, or proficiency timing requirement or anything of the sort, once you are trained, you are trained, and if they push you out of a helicopter with wings, you better know what you are doing. Not so in CAP.

[lordmonar]

Uh....no.

They award the badge as sign of acomplishing a set of objectives.....and that is it.  The badge has nothing to do with your current qualifications....nor is there ever an expectation that you will remain current in what ever the training was.

I don't know why CAP has the stuipid rule about the EMT badge.....it is the only one that has to be removed when no longer current.  One of the many things that need to be fixed IMHO.

[Eclipse]

The difference is that in the Army you are supposed to always remember your training and job no matter what  you have been doing for the past ten years. So if I were to go back in, I would still be expected to be proficient in AASLT Operations, and be a proficient Infantryman no matter if I were pushing papers. There is no training lapse date, or proficiency timing requirement or anything of the sort, once you are trained, you are trained, and if they push you out of a helicopter with wings, you better know what you are doing. Not so in CAP.

Not so anywhere, Army included.

You're saying a military pilot who loses his flight quals because of a medical condition and goes on to an admin job is expected to remain
proficient as a pilot just because he is wearing wings on his uniform?

Or a doctor who completed his requisite jumps as part of airborne training, but then goes on to run a hospital? He's expected to keep jumping
and doing fieldwork?

How does that work, exactly?

[Hawk200]

There is no training lapse date, or proficiency timing requirement or anything of the sort, once you are trained, you are trained, and if they push you out of a helicopter with wings, you better know what you are doing.

I don't see that being accurate.I've been on flight status, but it's been two years since I crewed, and at present I would not be permitted to crew. I would require up to twenty hours of retraining/refresher to perform the duties again. That would include progression under a Standardizations or Flight instructor, and would have to be documented. I would never be just tossed back into the crew pool without it.

I seriously doubt that you would get pushed out of a helicopter for an air assault unless you can show training or operational experience in the last six months.

I also seriously doubt that the Army would pull your Bullwinkle if you couldn't do an air assault today when the last one you did was a decade ago. It would be foolish on the Army's part to do so. Not to mention, it could get someone killed.

Additionally, there is the factor that the badge is the result of a school attendance, not necessarily having the skills. 

[adamblank]

Is CAP the only place they have discussions like this? Do they ask these questions in the RM? There are hundreds if not thousands of military personnel that wore a set of jump wings on their uniform today who have not jumped out of a perfectly good airplane since they made the last of their 5 exits at jump school. That may have been three weeks or thirty years ago. Nobody is going to worry about whether they should be wearing the wings whether are on jump status or not. They did the work, they earned the badge, they wear it. This would include the EMT or GT badge for us. At one time you did the work, you earned the badge, and you wear it. It signifies achievement  not currency. To say otherwise is just splitting hairs but that seems to be the trend here on CT.

The difference is that in the Army you are supposed to always remember your training and job no matter what  you have been doing for the past ten years. So if I were to go back in, I would still be expected to be proficient in AASLT Operations, and be a proficient Infantryman no matter if I were pushing papers. There is no training lapse date, or proficiency timing requirement or anything of the sort, once you are trained, you are trained, and if they push you out of a helicopter with wings, you better know what you are doing. Not so in CAP.

Scott, it doesn't quite work like that.  Whether it be AF, Army or whatever there will be proficiency training if required prior to performing in a skill set or operating a weapon system/aircraft etc.