Uniform for Recruiting Purposes...?

[Skydude61]

Ok, So I desire to wear a CAP uniform (blues specifically) to my High School for a recruiting event. Is this a feasable use of the CAP uniform?

[mclarke]

I have seen it done, but check with your chain of command.

Something suggested in my squadron was a Senior go to the schools during lunch hours and have a cadet with them from that school.

Something I got permission to do was work with the AF recruiter. I am going to leave some business cards and pamphlets at his office for the younger kids. I am suppose to set up a time to join him during his school recruiting as well.

[Eclipse]

You need:

Squadron CC's permission.

School permission.

You might be surprised that #2 is more difficult than #1.

[mclarke]

You need:

Squadron CC's permission.

School permission.

You might be surprised that #2 is more difficult than #1.

I have CC permission to "do any recruiting I have time for".... which when asked further, I can pretty much do anything within regs

As for schools, I am working on that one... but yeah, its harder

[RADIOMAN015]

You need:

Squadron CC's permission.

School permission.

You might be surprised that #2 is more difficult than #1.

The problem with schools is if they allow one person to wear a uniform they have to allow them all.  So if they allow the Boy Scouts and they won't allow CAP, you have a legitimate complaint.  I think they all worry that the Sons of the Gestapos will get some uniforms and also want to do recruiting at the school.  I know locally a few senior members were allowed to go into the schools during the lunch period time and set up a small recruiting information table while in uniform, BUT locally I don't recall ANY cadet in any school system being allowed to wear their uniform.
RM 

[Eclipse]

The problem with schools is if they allow one person to wear a uniform they have to allow them all.

So police and fire are not allowed in?

The issue isn't the uniform, per se, but the perceived and misunderstood military affiliation.  Some school districts have specifically barred military recruiting on-campus, and lump CAP in with that situation.  Usually someone willing to persevere (i.e. be a professional / respectful PITA) can break through the fog, but not always, and far too often people just get tired of ice-skating uphill.

Anyone who has ever dealt with a local school board or condo association knows there is no issue too petty to get attention, and facts don't necessarily change
initial perceptions.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The issue isn't the uniform, per se, but the perceived and misunderstood military affiliation.

Which means that the "approved" uniform for such situations will probably end up only being the grey one.

[Eclipse]

The issue isn't the uniform, per se, but the perceived and misunderstood military affiliation.

Which means that the "approved" uniform for such situations will probably end up only being the grey one.

In most cases, including this one, we're talking about cadets.

[NCRblues]

The problem with schools is if they allow one person to wear a uniform they have to allow them all.

So police and fire are not allowed in?

The issue isn't the uniform, per se, but the perceived and misunderstood military affiliation.  Some school districts have specifically barred military recruiting on-campus, and lump CAP in with that situation.  Usually someone willing to persevere (i.e. be a professional / respectful PITA) can break through the fog, but not always, and far too often people just get tired of ice-skating uphill.

Anyone who has ever dealt with a local school board or condo association knows there is no issue too petty to get attention, and facts don't necessarily change
initial perceptions.

I would like to know what school districts around you dont allow recruiters.... because they are in violation of Federal law if they don't...

"Congress has passed two major pieces of legislation that generally require local educational agencies (LEAs) receiving assistance under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (ESEA)1 to give military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as they provide to postsecondary institutions or to prospective employers. LEAs are also generally required to provide students' names, addresses, and telephone listings to military recruiters, when requested. These requirements are contained in § 9528 of the ESEA (20 U.S.C. § 7908), as amended by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (P.L. No. 107-110)"

[Bluelakes 13]

I would like to know what school districts around you dont allow recruiters.... because they are in violation of Federal law if they don't...

"Congress has passed two major pieces of legislation that generally require local educational agencies (LEAs) receiving assistance under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (ESEA)1 to give military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as they provide to postsecondary institutions or to prospective employers. LEAs are also generally required to provide students' names, addresses, and telephone listings to military recruiters, when requested. These requirements are contained in § 9528 of the ESEA (20 U.S.C. § 7908), as amended by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (P.L. No. 107-110)"

In northern IL, they use the clause "give military recruiters the same access to" to mean no access for all. 

[davidsinn]

I would like to know what school districts around you dont allow recruiters.... because they are in violation of Federal law if they don't...

"Congress has passed two major pieces of legislation that generally require local educational agencies (LEAs) receiving assistance under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (ESEA)1 to give military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as they provide to postsecondary institutions or to prospective employers. LEAs are also generally required to provide students' names, addresses, and telephone listings to military recruiters, when requested. These requirements are contained in § 9528 of the ESEA (20 U.S.C. § 7908), as amended by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (P.L. No. 107-110)"

In northern IL, they use the clause "give military recruiters the same access to" to mean no access for all.

So they don't allow colleges to come in or job fairs? Talk about stupid.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

As a cadet I wore my uniform to school about once a month, most every cadet did. We had permission from our CC and the principal. When the school board came knocking the principal said that the military is allowed to recruit at the schools and so are the boy scouts and there is a JROTC program at one of the other schools. Also he had me bring them my manuals to show the school board that it was another educational experience that could be useful to all students. Good luck getting another principal that is that awesome. It can be done and if they allow others to recruit at the school then they should allow you the same. Wearing your uniform is not where it stops though, you need to have the information to use and the pamphlets to recruit with as well.  This isn't just go ahead and wear your uniform to school and look cool in it day, you really need to be trying to really recruit when you are there. That means talking about it when you are able to and explaining not just your squadron, but CAP as a whole.

[Eclipse]

To Jim's comment and our experience, note the term "generally", for starters.

Our area is littered with Suburbs and school districts, each with their own agenda.  While the major cities have JROTC and ROTC programs, our
primary presence is in the suburbs, where there is still a fair amount of...well..."difference of opinion" regarding the military and CAP.

Whether it is farmers who say their kids don't have time for it, home schoolers who disdain the system, or the suburban school districts who think that
"militarizing" the school system would be a symptom of CAP presence, it is a "challenge" to say the least.  And because it is all local, it's all different.  The
range around here is from schools with big units and a visible presence to schools that don't allow wear of the uniform.

We occasionally get into the random high school, but as most of would admit, high-school recruiting is usually too late to have much result.  If the kids
aren't invested in CAP by freshman year, odds are most would not even consider it, unless they have a specific military goal in mind.

You can wave all the statutes you want, but unless you are interested in the perseverance of school board and city council meetings, and then
the likely possibility of a prolonged court fight, it isn't going to happen.

Another factor in this is how "unusual" it is to see a military uniform any more in this state (and a lot of others).  You have to dial back 10-15 years to find an
Air Force base within the major metro area, and most of the Army and reserve centers are gone as well.  You have to drive 3 hours South to get to a major
Army base, and while the Navy base is considered a big installation today, we have malls in this state that take up more room and have more of a visible impact. 

Couple that with the still divisive nature of the wars, and a lot of people who are ill-informed, or prone to knee-jerk reactions, see a uniform and have a visceral negative reaction.  Assuming you can actually get them to talk to you, you can usually get them to begrudgingly admit we need a military and to understand the CAP dynamic, but then it turns into "fine, but not in my backyard..."

[Майор Хаткевич]

In my 3 years of high school, the recruiting for the military went from bi monthly, to quarterly, to one a semester.

Eventually the recruiters give up.

As for CAP, we did a couple, but they were ineffective, and I probably had more talking time done about CAP with classmates than during lunch break recruiting sessions. We also never netted any cadets through the high school system.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^referring to

Good night nurse...I remember distinctly back in grade school in the post-Vietnam 1970s that we were visited by two recruiters, an Army SFC in 5th grade and a Marine Gunny in full dress blues in 6th grade.

The girls in 6th grade, just starting to notice the opposite gender, thought the Marine was rather cute...made me want to be a Marine Aviator for a long time. 

My point is that during that time in history, the period between 1975 and 1981, a military career was not encouraged by many parents and a lot of people bad-mouthed the military.  I was lucky having an Army vet for a dad and uncles that served variously in the Air Force, National Guard, Marines (Korean combat veteran), Army and Navy.  One of my cousins later went on to become a National Guard recruiter and retired as an SFC.

Could it be worse now than it was then?  I hope not.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't think it's quite as bad as you convey and I've heard/read from others.

I also don't understand the current mood though.

It makes no sense honestly, mainly because when I was old enough for the recruiters to care, I drove myself to them...

The trips to schools may have been important before the internet, but now I bet I can find more answers to my questions than even the recruiter could answer on the fly.

[SarDragon]

My point is that during that time in history, the period between1975 1964 and 1981, a military career was not encouraged by many parents and a lot of people bad-mouthed the military.  I was lucky having an Army vet for a dad and uncles that served variously in the Air Force, National Guard, Marines (Korean combat veteran), Army and Navy.  One of my cousins later went on to become a National Guard recruiter and retired as an SFC.

Could it be worse now than it was then?  I hope not.

No, I don't think so, but it may be swinging that way, what with the length of time US troops have spent in "The Sandbox".

I don't think it's quite as bad as you convey and I've heard/read from others.

I also don't understand the current mood though.

It makes no sense honestly, mainly because when I was old enough for the recruiters to care, I drove myself to them...

The trips to schools may have been important before the internet, but now I bet I can find more answers to my questions than even the recruiter could answer on the fly.

As bad then, or now? It was certainly bad in the stated period. Being a veteran was not something to advertise and be proud of.

The mood now is shifting, but I think it is overall positive. The economy sucks, which drives enlistment rates up. The general populace has a better attitude about the war, and vets, than existed during Viet Nam. They are laying the 'blame' in the proper place, with the politicians, instead of the military folks.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yea....weird sentence. I mean that NOW isn't as bad as Vietnam era.

[Rogovin]

It still defeats the purpose.  In my high school, there have been occasional yearnings for a JROTC program.  A Cadet who is now a C/LtCol tried, and failed.  The school doesnt want to spend the money, and the parents are uninformed/ignorant.  The School Board would have none of it unless the Air Force paid for it all!  And since we all know that that would never happen, the JROTC idea quickly fluttered, and died.  Its a great program, with many opportunities.  People are blind, and noone wants to see!  It's a big problem.

-Rogovin

[sneakers]

I have done a total of two recruiting days at my high school. To get permission from the school was hard though. I had to work my way up through the bureucrats, and finally had to have a meeting between myself, a senior member, my high school principal, and the assistant district superintendent. The principal and assistant district superintendant were hard sells, but we got in.

We have recruited one senior member from the school (a janitor who is also a pilot)!

Some students were interested, but nobody has joined because of those visits. It may be because we are too far (half an hour) away from our meeting place, and we are the nearest squadron.