What to say and when to say it

[ElectricPenguin]

If someone asked you, "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AROUND?!?!" when you wern't looking around, what would you say? Saying, "No excuse sir!" will usualy do you no good.


I woulden't want to end up like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l9yKLXa-Xc

[Ned]

Anybody know what wing this is?

I was thinking of visiting a few encampments this summer.

Ned Lee

[ElectricPenguin]

Anybody know what wing this is?

I was thinking of visiting a few encampments this summer.

Ned Lee

I think it may be TXWG as someone in the comments said. Sadly, thats where im going for summer.

[MIKE]

So Ned, would this be an example? 

[davidsinn]

If someone asked you, "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AROUND?!?!" when you wern't looking around, what would you say? Saying, "No excuse sir!" will usualy do you no good.


I woulden't want to end up like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l9yKLXa-Xc

If you are at attention you do not answer because the POA requires silence...

[EMT-83]

What I would say, and what you should say, would be two entirely different conversations.

[SarDragon]

I looked for location clues, and didn't see any, except that it might be a front plate optional state. There were a couple of cars sans front tags.

[Eclipse]

Its an example alright.

Assuming this is in-processing, both of those staff cadets have yelled themselves hoarse and it's only day 1.
Where are the adults?

[jks19714]

Somebody has been watching too many reruns of Full Metal Jacket. 

[Persona non grata]

I hope that is all that happend there.  I can recall having my stuff thrown out a second floor window.  Sitting in the chair, how professional, that lad needs to have a 101 with one of the DI'S at Paris Island .   There is nothing wrong with projecting your voice in a loud manner but rest of this stuff needs to be knocked off Nation wide.   

[N Harmon]

Its an example alright.

Assuming this is in-processing, both of those staff cadets have yelled themselves hoarse and its only day 1.
Where are the adults?

Look in the background and you will see him.  Seniors can not claim they didn't know this was going on

Also the USAF person on the right, just a second or so before the end of the video.

[Major Lord]

Its nice to know that "EST" and other groups will have no trouble recruiting future sensitivity trainers......

If I could travel through time and space, and Cadet Sgt Major R. Lee Ermey there asked what I was looking at, I would have asked him why he was wearing a rainbow coalition yellow support bracelet on his wrist?.......He needs a therapist, a qualified senior member to watch over him, and a voice therapist to help him recover from the vocal nodules he is developing. Apparently, there are more than two things that come from Texas!

Major Lord

[N Harmon]

Apparently, there are more than two things that come from Texas!

I don't think this is Texas.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

If you are at attention you do not answer because the POA requires silence...

That is unless you are being adressed, then you answer the question.

I always answered that I am staring at infinity. If they ask what infinity is then that is 10 degrees above the horizon. There really is nothing that anyone can say about that answer.

[Al Sayre]

I was taught that infinity was "Sky blue pink with a purple hue! Sir!"

[N Harmon]

"Sir, my eyes are pointed in a Euclidean parallel direction, Sir!"

[Ned]

I got a PM that said that this does not appear to be Camp Swift, and since Texas apparently requires front license plates, that this may not be TXWG.

Any detectives out there?

Because I do feel like a road trip this summer.

[HGjunkie]

That looks like an AF... Lt. Col? Can't tell if he's a Major or Lt. Col.

[Arkbird]

I reconized some of the staff and basics.  I was a basic that year.  It's NCWG's 2009 Encampment at Camp Lejeune.

[Eclipse]

Ignore, wrong guess.

Pics from the activity and the news article would jive with the video.

[Eclipse]

That looks like an AF... Lt. Col? Can't tell if he's a Major or Lt. Col.

Most likely a CAP-RAP.

[ElectricPenguin]

I always answered that I am staring at infinity. If they ask what infinity is then that is 10 degrees above the horizon. There really is nothing that anyone can say about that answer.
[/quote]

THANK YOU!!!

[ElectricPenguin]

I got a PM that said that this does not appear to be Camp Swift, and since Texas apparently requires front license plates, that this may not be TXWG.

Any detectives out there?

Because I do feel like a road trip this summer.

I am going there for summer. I will take a looksie.

[jks19714]

If you are at attention you do not answer because the POA requires silence...

I always answered that I am staring at infinity. If they ask what infinity is then that is 10 degrees above the horizon. There really is nothing that anyone can say about that answer.

I am looking for signs of intelligent life Sir.   

[indygreg]

Just watched the video.  I'd have a real problem with cadet leaders acting like that.  Totally unacceptable. IMHO.

[Eclipse]

I suspect that once the person who posted this gets wind of the "notoriety", it'll be pulled.  I've already saved it locally for posterity.

It will make an outstanding "don't" for this Friday and RST next year.

[ElectricPenguin]

I suspect that once the person who posted this gets wind of the "notoriety", it'll be pulled.  I've already saved it locally for posterity.

It will make an outstanding "don't" for this Friday and RST next year.

They removed it from public view on youtube. Only people with the link can see. Wait...? How did you save it locally???

[Eclipse]

^ Yes, and the link is above for all to see.  So much for the privacy settings on YouTube.

Use this to save locally: http://www.freemake.com/

[TCMajor]

Unbelievable!  That is one of the most unprofessional, and disrespectful acts I have ever seen a supposed leader carry out on a subordinate.  That young man needs to learn that when someone reports to you and salutes, the salute is to be returned unless you are a pay officer, and we haven't had those in a while.  It probably would not have any effect as he seemed pretty full of himself.  The only person sitting during an in processing should be the clerk keeping the records.  An officer or NCO sitting and yelling like that neither earns nor deserves the respect of those Cadets entrusted to him.  At least when I was in training situations like that, my leaders had the decency to at least walk around me while they were ripping my head off.  But that was Army Basic and WOBC, so there was purpose to the yelling.  We were actually preparing to be warriors.  I just don't get it.   

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Just actually watched the video. This is unacceptable! No one should be yelling like this. There is a time and a place to yell, and if no one is in danger then it is not the time to yell. I would love to see those cadets and treat them the same way they were treating their cadets. Were that my encampment, they would be relieved of duty and they would be in my flight.

[Robert Hartigan]

I have had the pleasure of serving as a cadet commander at an encampment and as an encampment commander. Both assignments were the highlights of my time in CAP. I did not tolerate the behavior in the video when I was a Cadet Commander and I rooted it out and squashed it as an encampment commander. I can not remember if I have shared my position paper on my encampment leadership style. I believe writing one should be a requirement of anyone in command of an encampment because it all starts at the top. Here is mine:

POSITION PAPER
ON
PERSONAL ENCAMPMENT LEADERSHIP STYLE
by Lt. Col. Robert P. Hartigan, CAP

1.   A fair but firm leadership laboratory experience must be omnipresent for all participants. Study and application of management theories and organizational leadership principles must be applied to the administration of the encampment mission. Therefore, the interactional psychology approach to organizational behavior highlights the need to study both the person and the situation.

2.   A person's skills and abilities, personality, perception, attribution, attitudes, values, and Ethics along with the organization of work groups, job tasks, and personal life are all individual contributors to individual behavior. Individual behavior provides valuable information that may be used in social perception.

3.   Characteristics of the perceiver, characteristics of the target and characteristics of the situation combine to form the process of interpreting information about another person however; barriers like stereotyping, first-impression error and projection may give inaccurate information. Extreme care must be taken to avoid primacy effects and first-impression errors with all initial staff interactions given the fact that the first time the staff is assembled as a collaborative team is the day before the encampment starts.

4.   As an encampment commander and a professional officer, I subscribe to McGregor's Theory Y, believing that people want to do the right thing when presented with an option. With a high internal locus of control and a high level of Emotional Intelligence, I am a proponent of organic structures over mechanistic structures for organizations in tactical environments. In addition, I support the inverse for organizations in stable, strategic phases. Lastly, I recognizing the more one lets go, the faster one gains control of a situation because delegation works as long as one fights for feedback!

[N Harmon]

I think we are all in agreement that the behavior of the Cadet Major (the one on the porch closest to the camera) is unacceptable. But I am curious what specifically everyone sees as crossing the line. I have watched this video through a few times now, paying close attention to a variety of individuals.

Contrast the behavior to that of the cadet officer on the other side of him. Is his acceptable?

[Cool Mace]

All I can say is DUMB! What was the point of all of that? He shouldn't be yelling if he's already lossing his voice. This is just sad.
I'm all for a "tough" encampment, but that's just straight up dumb!

If I had a leader like that at my encampment, I would be laughing too hard and get in trouble. But, after being in for over 9 years, you learn what not to do as well...

[Huey Driver]

Another good "infinity". FS-Flight Sergent, F-Flight

FS- "Cadets! What are you looking at!?"

F- "Infinity, Sir!"

FS- "And what is infinity!?"

F- "Infinity is a purple cow in a pink pasture drinking chocolate milk, Sir!"

FS- "And how is that cow, Cadets?"

F- "She eats, sleeps, and loves that chocolate milk! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

FS- "Outstanding." 

[Spaceman3750]

I got a PM that said that this does not appear to be Camp Swift, and since Texas apparently requires front license plates, that this may not be TXWG.

Any detectives out there?

Because I do feel like a road trip this summer.

PM sent.

[Spaceman3750]

Bingo. Pegged in more than one way, this is just an example. Arkbird is correct.

EDIT: Did even more digging. What's worse is that the cadet that posted the video was on public affairs staff that year.

[MSG Mac]

One of the ideas of the encampment is to learn to be a leader. Obviously these cadets confused the Hitler Youth with the Civil Air Patrol. I can't imagine no one stepping in and correcting these two hemorrhoids.

[davidsinn]

One of the ideas of the encampment is to learn to be a leader. Obviously these cadets confused the Hitler Youth with the Civil Air Patrol. I can't imagine no one stepping in and correcting these two hemorrhoids.

Godwin.

If I had been within earshot of that, there would have been a serious "come to Jesus meeting."

[MSG Mac]

I expect to drive my grandkids to the Maryland Wing Encampment and don't expect this to occur there.

[addo1]

I most definitely have some comments, but will save those for later.

I will, however, displace the idea that this was in Texas Wing. I have been to every encampment for the past many years in TXWG and I can guarantee you that this is not a TX facility. The only locations we have been to in the past few years have been the Alert Facility near Tyler, Texas and Camp Swift Training Facility in Bastrop, Texas. Texas Wing encampments do include some intensity and are definitely not "joy rides" for basics, but do not include things of this nature.

[ElectricPenguin]

Bingo. Pegged in more than one way, this is just an example. Arkbird is correct.

EDIT: Did even more digging. What's worse is that the cadet that posted the video was on public affairs staff that year.

HA! Wow. Any idea what wing? NVM

[ElectricPenguin]

I think we are all in agreement that the behavior of the Cadet Major (the one on the porch closest to the camera) is unacceptable. But I am curious what specifically everyone sees as crossing the line. I have watched this video through a few times now, paying close attention to a variety of individuals.

Contrast the behavior to that of the cadet officer on the other side of him. Is his acceptable?

How do we know he is a Major??? He doesn't display grade.

I stand corrected. His hat.

[ElectricPenguin]

I most definitely have some comments, but will save those for later.

I will, however, displace the idea that this was in Texas Wing. I have been to every encampment for the past many years in TXWG and I can guarantee you that this is not a TX facility. The only locations we have been to in the past few years have been the Alert Facility near Tyler, Texas and Camp Swift Training Facility in Bastrop, Texas. Texas Wing encampments do include some intensity and are definitely not "joy rides" for basics, but do not include things of this nature.

Good. I wouldn't want to have to deal with this.

[ElectricPenguin]

FYI folks, there was another video of this, this video is just the ending of it all. Though I think the owner hid that one too.

[blackrain]

I see a couple of cadets need remedial leadership training.

Now where did I put that FM on "Wall to Wall Counseling"

[ElectricPenguin]

http://ncwgencampment.blogspot.com/2009/07/cadet-paos-shine-at-2009-encampment.html

http://ncwgencampment.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?orderby=updated

[HGjunkie]

Uhh... Busted?

[ElectricPenguin]

Uhh... Busted?

:clap: I feel like CIA 

[Spaceman3750]

Uhh... Busted?

:clap: I feel like CSI 

Yeah, the cadet that recorded/posted the video was on PAO staff, sadly. He did a good job of not linking his screen name with his real name but his girlfriend didn't. I found him after a couple hours of searching last night.

[ElectricPenguin]

Uhh... Busted?

:clap: I feel like CSI 

Yeah, the cadet that recorded/posted the video was on PAO staff, sadly. He did a good job of not linking his screen name with his real name but his girlfriend didn't. I found him after a couple hours of searching last night.

How the heck did you find his girl friend???

[SarDragon]

We can't give away all of our methods, now, can we?  :angel:

[ElectricPenguin]

We can't give away all of our methods, now, can we?  :angel:

:clap: Bravo CIA

[Spaceman3750]

Uhh... Busted?

:clap: I feel like CSI 

Yeah, the cadet that recorded/posted the video was on PAO staff, sadly. He did a good job of not linking his screen name with his real name but his girlfriend didn't. I found him after a couple hours of searching last night.

How the heck did you find his girl friend???

Your online privacy is only as good as your friends. If you are a tight ship, but your friends post their name and yours all over the internet, then you're cooked. That principle came into play here.

[ElectricPenguin]

The only girl on his friends list is single. Anyone see his 'fire' video? He seems quite careless.

[SARDOC]

I found him after a couple hours of searching last night.

HOURS...really?!?  Really?   hmm...okay.

[Spaceman3750]

I found him after a couple hours of searching last night.

HOURS...really?!?  Really?   hmm...okay.

I missed it the first time. There were a few headbangs afterwards.

[arBar]

Absolutely deplorable.  If this is what is to be expected, my daughter will definitely not be joining.  This type of video is embarrassing and makes me want to not be associated with this organization.  I hope to God that the person who posted it would pull it off, not just from public, but completely.

Somebody please tell me that this is rare.

[Eclipse]

Somebody please tell me that this is rare.

It is.  The majority of our activities would not allow this, and the program itself specifically prohibits this kind of nonsense.

[ElectricPenguin]

Absolutely deplorable.  If this is what is to be expected, my daughter will definitely not be joining.  This type of video is embarrassing and makes me want to not be associated with this organization.  I hope to God that the person who posted it would pull it off, not just from public, but completely.

Somebody please tell me that this is rare.

This is not what is expected. Regular CAP training schools are not like this.

[ZigZag911]

It's a disgrace...also, DUMB...what is the PURPOSE of this exercise?

[jks19714]

I see a couple of cadets need remedial leadership training.

Now where did I put that FM on "Wall to Wall Counseling"

My late father never needed an FM!   :angel:

[Майор Хаткевич]

I suspect that once the person who posted this gets wind of the "notoriety", it'll be pulled.  I've already saved it locally for posterity.

It will make an outstanding "don't" for this Friday and RST next year.

I just may need to get out of college for...a few days.

[ElectricPenguin]

 Soooo... that's it? We arnt going to make sure this won't happen again?

[NCRblues]

Soooo... that's it? We arnt going to make sure this won't happen again?

And uh, how do you propose we "make sure this wont happen again"?

It seems not a single one of us that post on this board were at that encampment so....?? 

[ElectricPenguin]

Someone on the first or second page went to that encampment. If you where to of read it you would know. Plus, this happend in 09. Meaning it could very well happen again.

[NC Hokie]

I have a pretty good feeling that the appropriate people are aware of the video, and that they will take steps to ensure that there aren't any similar incidents in the future.

[Chappie]

I have a pretty good feeling that the appropriate people are aware of the video, and that they will take steps to ensure that there aren't any similar incidents in the future.

Given your sig block and screen name, I am confident that this matter is being laid to rest.  Thanks for your assurance.