Regulations to get "maksman", "sharpshooter", ect.?

[lordmonar]

No, they were not. These medals were used for a more recent program, simply called the "Marksmanship Program" Through the NRA for youth between the ages of 8 and 18. The requirements for these qualifications ARE different than those of the Junior Marksmanship Program. Also, this newer "Marksmanship Program" Is no longer used by the NRA as well. The only refferances to this program, believe it or not, are those made by CAP members arguing and discussing this same topic. Google it, the first full page of results are CAP folk.

Strange....I was just on the NRA web sight....and they still have their marksmans program. 

So...I don't know what you are googleing...

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/index.asp
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.aspx?cat=Medals%20and%20Bars

[Zen Master Charlie]

No, they were not. These medals were used for a more recent program, simply called the "Marksmanship Program" Through the NRA for youth between the ages of 8 and 18. The requirements for these qualifications ARE different than those of the Junior Marksmanship Program. Also, this newer "Marksmanship Program" Is no longer used by the NRA as well. The only refferances to this program, believe it or not, are those made by CAP members arguing and discussing this same topic. Google it, the first full page of results are CAP folk.

Strange....I was just on the NRA web sight....and they still have their marksmans program. 

So...I don't know what you are googleing...

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/index.asp
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.aspx?cat=Medals%20and%20Bars

Yes, it is getting very spacific here, but again, the "Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program" Is the newest program they are running. It is not the "Junior Marksmanship Program" or the "Marksmanship Program." Both of these programs did lead up to the current one, but are different. The information I'm getting is from a local NRA Chapter Instructor, whom I have known for many years, and I know this mans word is one to live on. According to him, the medals are no longer awarded by the NRA. In the NRA, members now wear the patches with the rockers, and anyone who has seen a recent red NRA uniform knows this. He said the NRA has not awarded those medals since the "Marksmanship Program" Which ended years ago, and yes, was a lead into the new "Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Program" But the requirements are different, as well as the awards. And again, this program is not the program refferanced in CAPM 39-1.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So....back in the day.....when maybe this unnamed senior member was allowed to take the AFQC for score and shot expert....they gave him his gard with "expert" on it.....just like all of mine......and he put said cad into his CAP personnel records......just like I did with my card into my UPRG (that is the USAF version of a personnel record).....went out and bought a ribbon.....just like I did.

All Kosher.

This has been some time ago but this CAP LTC told me that he got the ribbon from qualifying at an ANG installation, and the ANG wing king signed off on it.

I dunno...maybe since it was on an ANG base, some arcane State regulation allowed it...beyond that, I don't know.

[lordmonar]

No, they were not. These medals were used for a more recent program, simply called the "Marksmanship Program" Through the NRA for youth between the ages of 8 and 18. The requirements for these qualifications ARE different than those of the Junior Marksmanship Program. Also, this newer "Marksmanship Program" Is no longer used by the NRA as well. The only references to this program, believe it or not, are those made by CAP members arguing and discussing this same topic. Google it, the first full page of results are CAP folk.

Strange....I was just on the NRA web sight....and they still have their marksmans program. 

So...I don't know what you are googleing...

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/index.asp
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.aspx?cat=Medals%20and%20Bars

Yes, it is getting very spacific here, but again, the "Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program" Is the newest program they are running. It is not the "Junior Marksmanship Program" or the "Marksmanship Program." Both of these programs did lead up to the current one, but are different. The information I'm getting is from a local NRA Chapter Instructor, whom I have known for many years, and I know this mans word is one to live on. According to him, the medals are no longer awarded by the NRA. In the NRA, members now wear the patches with the rockers, and anyone who has seen a recent red NRA uniform knows this. He said the NRA has not awarded those medals since the "Marksmanship Program" Which ended years ago, and yes, was a lead into the new "Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Program" But the requirements are different, as well as the awards. And again, this program is not the program referenced in CAPM 39-1.

Okay.....when I take my cadets to the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Program here in Las Vegas....every month.....they do in fact award these badges... and as you can tell by the link provided the NRA still sells them.

I agree......the current NRA program is not the Junior Markmans program mention in 39-1.......but that is neither here nor there.

Also....."I know this guy and I trust him" is not really a very good argument.  Especially that you are more or less anonymous your self.

[Eclipse]

...this CAP LTC Lt. Col. told me

...

Well we all know that the above sentence has never ended in anything but accurate, timely information, so...

[shlebz]

Howzabouts this...

I like this one the best of those presented but prefer a solid colored ribbon so that the attachments are more visible.

i agree except i like the idea of having to earn pro-marksman before earning the ribbon. but i like the look of the ribbon

[Zen Master Charlie]

Howzabouts this...

I like this one the best of those presented but prefer a solid colored ribbon so that the attachments are more visible.

i agree except i like the idea of having to earn pro-marksman before earning the ribbon. but i like the look of the ribbon

I dont want anymore ribbons 

[Zen Master Charlie]

Okay.....when I take my cadets to the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Program here in Las Vegas....every month.....they do in fact award these badges... and as you can tell by the link provided the NRA still sells them.

I agree......the current NRA program is not the Junior Markmans program mention in 39-1.......but that is neither here nor there.

Also....."I know this guy and I trust him" is not really a very good argument.  Especially that you are more or less anonymous your self.
[/quote]

Well "I know this guy and I trust him because he is an expert NRA chapter leader," is different than "I know this guy and I trust him because he used to shoot with the NRA 10 years ago."

Take a dance instructor for instance. I know jack squat about dancing, but if a dance instructor tells me there is a differance between the tango and grinding, hey, I'll listen to them! 

Sounds to me like the NRA is much like CAP. Here in colorado, the badges arent given out anymore, they said they phased out of them years ago. meanwhile in LV, they are still handing them out... haha, such a familiar story! 

[lordmonar]

They may not be given out......that is the local NRA club may not go out and buy them and award them to their members....but NRA sells packages for each level that includes a certificate, the rocker patch and the badge.

Just because one place does not do it....does not mean the entire organisation does not do it.

That is one of the problems with going with "well someone told me".  We see it all the time everywhere in CAP, the AD USAF, work.  If you want to sound knowledgable on your subject you need to be careful spouting off second hand information.

Now...having said that...I am not in the NRA....nor am I an NRA instructor.  It is always possible that here in Nevada the NRA club is doing it wrong.    But.....given the fact that they still sell them at the NRA web site one can reasonablly assume that the NRA does in fact still award the badges.

[Eclipse]

Okay.....when I take my cadets to the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Program here in Las Vegas....every month.....they do in fact award these badges... and as you can tell by the link provided the NRA still sells them.

People do all sorts of silly things.

There are Units that have received Commanders Commendations.  Citing something "happened" doesn't make it correct.

[Hawk200]

Well "I know this guy and I trust him because he is an expert NRA chapter leader," is different than "I know this guy and I trust him because he used to shoot with the NRA 10 years ago."

You're still missing the point. "I know this guy and trust him" is completely different than "John Q. Doe, in the Reno, Nevada marksmanship training club run by the NRA says that these badges are still awarded."

It's a case of citing your sources. "I know a guy..." is usually one of the statements that gets what you put forth ignored. You may not think it's right, but it's the way professionals work.

Put in a slightly different setting, which sounds better? "I heard from a guy that I can wear the ES patch on my BDUs" compared to "CAPM 39-1 states that the Emergency Services patch is worn one half inch above the nametape of BDUs." Which one sounds more informed?

[Eclipse]

"Goodfella Research^®" generally ends as soon as you find someone who agrees with you.

[Hawk200]

"Goodfella Research^®" generally ends as soon as you find someone who agrees with you.

Mind if I borrow that?

[Eclipse]

"Goodfella Research^®" generally ends as soon as you find someone who agrees with you.

Mind if I borrow that?

Enjoy.

[Vegas]

I have a question.
What is it to anyone if the cadets earned the said "marksmanship" badge, why not let them wear it? They took the time to shoot accurately for probably some months and are proud to wear it. Why take that away from them? If it is not the word for word program in CAPM 39-1, pg 108 Table 6-2, then why not just change the program wording?
I just don't see the point behind taking away an award that they have earned.

[Eclipse]

I just don't see the point behind taking away an award that they have earned.

It is not currently possible to earn any authorized marksmanship badge as a cadet in CAP.  The program that awarded the authorized badges
no longer exists.  Any cadets who earned the badge(s) under the old program would be free to continue to wear them, but those numbers
are shrinking every year (assuming we haven't already last the point where the last one would have aged-out).

What is it to anyone?

As a cadet officer you know we live and die are guided in all things by regulations, including what we are allowed to wear on our uniforms.  The "word for word" (s) of 39-1 are also what authorizes cadets to wear the NRA badge at all, and considering that the NRA is in no way affiliated with CAP, and CAP is a non-combatant organization, one could also make the argument that we should just end the wear of any NRA badge at all (not that I am advocating that).

Hopefully at some point in the near future the wording will be corrected, but there's no guarantee it will, nor any guarantee it will be corrected
to allow the new program's badges to be worn.

[lordmonar]

Why not let them wear their Eagle Scout badge too....they earned it as well.

I agree with your sentiment....this is really a no brainer....and you will see that in my squadron we allow those cadets who were awareded the badge during the "gray" period to continue to wear them.

Having said that...we don't allow anyone else to wear them.  We are waiting for NHQ to figure it out.

[lordmonar]

As a cadet officer yo know we live and die by regulations, including what we are allowed to wear on our uniforms.

No we live and die by the mission.

But let's no go down that road. 

[Eclipse]

As a cadet officer yo know we live and die by regulations, including what we are allowed to wear on our uniforms.

No we live and die by the mission.

Corrected.

[UWONGO2]

We just had a few cadets from the TXWG out our way and one of them was wearing the marksman medal. I didn't want to make a big issue out of it, so I simply asked him what it was. He said he got it for completing the NRA course a couple of years ago. I said I thought we no longer allowed wearing an award for that and said it was authorized in the TXWG.

I figured he was a cadet doing what he was told and the last thing I wanted to do was start some sort of intra-wing war, so I just thanked him for the information.

How are we doing on coming up with some language for Col Lee to take to the national board? It would be nice to get this fixed!