American Flag Patch. Creased or not?

[NCRblues]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Absolute BS. Do not insult my fellow brothers and sisters, who for when they had the BDU's, kept them well ironed and boots shined nicely. I guess you must be ignorant to the fact some people give to shi'as about how they appear, for pride reasons. If the American flag touches it, except for uniforms worn during combat, it should squared away. It is an insult to put any representation of America on something that looks like crap.

Its not an insult.

I sat through a wing commanders call (39th wing) where the CMSAF was happy we were doing away with BDUs. He was pleased because in his words " it has become a game (about polishing boots and ironing) and we have started to judge airman not by their ability to do the job well, but by how much free time they spend on uniforms."

The very first day I could, i switch to ABU's. I was tired of doing a 14 hour panama shift, and having to go home (ignore my family) and polish and iron. Its time to move away from judgment on airman by WORK uniforms. You want to judge someone on uniforms, have em put dress blues on. That's the uniform to shine in. BDU/ABU's are for (shocking) WORK.

With the ops tempo as it is today, and the AEF cycle the way it is, lets allow members more time with families. The divorce rate for many jobs in the AF is through the roof. Suicide rates are extraordinarily high. why not make service members life a little easier. Wear the uniform proper, but don't overdue it.

[abdsp51]

I concur, to many folks spent more time worrying about how good they looked before during and after shift.  The guys that came to work looking good and stayed that way at the end didn't work.  I can say that because I monitored the radio and knew who was out doing their job and being active in things and who wasn't.  When it came time for an extra day off the guy/gal who busted their rear to be active and looked like they went through the ringer got it.  Thank god that ABUs are wash and wear, and the boots until that green leather gets cycled in are low mx.

[AngelWings]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Absolute BS. Do not insult my fellow brothers and sisters, who for when they had the BDU's, kept them well ironed and boots shined nicely. I guess you must be ignorant to the fact some people give to shi'as about how they appear, for pride reasons. If the American flag touches it, except for uniforms worn during combat, it should squared away. It is an insult to put any representation of America on something that looks like crap.

Its not an insult.

I sat through a wing commanders call (39th wing) where the CMSAF was happy we were doing away with BDUs. He was pleased because in his words " it has become a game (about polishing boots and ironing) and we have started to judge airman not by their ability to do the job well, but by how much free time they spend on uniforms."

The very first day I could, i switch to ABU's. I was tired of doing a 14 hour panama shift, and having to go home (ignore my family) and polish and iron. Its time to move away from judgment on airman by WORK uniforms. You want to judge someone on uniforms, have em put dress blues on. That's the uniform to shine in. BDU/ABU's are for (shocking) WORK.

With the ops tempo as it is today, and the AEF cycle the way it is, lets allow members more time with families. The divorce rate for many jobs in the AF is through the roof. Suicide rates are extraordinarily high. why not make service members life a little easier. Wear the uniform proper, but don't overdue it.

It should take anyone over 45 minutes to an hour to iron a uniform and polish boots. After that, it is overdone, and shows it. It takes me 30 minutes to iron my top and pants with sharp creases and a long lasting (even through dirt and mud) press, and a shine that looks healthy. I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms. BDU's are a work uniform, but not a wrinkle cloth. The boots are meant to take punishment, but should look black, not grey and neglected. I doubt an hour tops is a reason why suicide rates are going up.
It was an insult, by the way. Saying that somebody doesn't have real work to do because they ironed their uniform and polished their boots is an absolute slap in the face to those who went the extra mile to look squared away. During some squadron meetings, I've run through the dirt, get down on my back to fix things, throw on gear and such, and my uniform lost its crispness. That doesn't mean I won't iron again, or polish my boots because they got dirty.

[davidsinn]

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

[tsrup]

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

Not that I entirely agree with either statement,

But why does having a squared away uniform and being a professional who is good at their job have to be mutually exclusive?

[NCRblues]

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

There is time to be "beauty queens" as you put it, and that time is with dress blues.

In BDU's I make sure my boots look black, and i make sure my BDU's are not "hamper qualed", but I cant spend an hour on a uniform, WIWAD or otherwise. My job was vastly more important than being able to see myself in my work boots...

[Eclipse]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

[NCRblues]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

Very true, but a good majority of my wing is very poor areas. I cant expect those members to shell those expenses out (yes I understand they are normally small).

Judging someone on how well they ironed or shined boots before the Tuesday meeting is not fair to anyone IMHO. If they do good work, and contribute, why should I care if the boots are not parade field shined?

[CJB]

"Dress & Appearance" is assessed on the EPR.  Wearing the uniform right is part of your duty.  The same goes for personal fitness.

You can't make the blanket statement that someone who pays attention to detail on their uniform doesn't display the same work ethic in their job.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I just want to know if I should iron the flag and wing patch, because I care enough not to look like a bag of ass.

[AngelWings]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

That works too. I hate people who are like "Arghh, I'm just going to wear this wrinkled uniform, with my grey and black boots, all sloppy, not take care of it, and put no time into making sure it is decent."

I judge my fellow CAP airmen and JROTC cadets by proper wear of their uniforms.

Then you're not anyone I want to be around. I judge a person by their actions, not their clothes. That hour you spent on your uniform could be better spent with your family or studying or any number of more productive things. I would rather someone go the extra mile to do their job better, not look better. Are we, and the military, professionals or are we beauty queens?

There is time to be "beauty queens" as you put it, and that time is with dress blues.

In BDU's I make sure my boots look black, and i make sure my BDU's are not "hamper qualed", but I cant spend an hour on a uniform, WIWAD or otherwise. My job was vastly more important than being able to see myself in my work boots...

I am done. I think it is best to agree to disagree here. Davidsinn, you insult me by blowing my comments out of portion and not using the intelligence I came to respect you on this forum to use logic in this case.

[AngelWings]

"Dress & Appearance" is assessed on the EPR.  Wearing the uniform right is part of your duty.  The same goes for personal fitness.

You can't make the blanket statement that someone who pays attention to detail on their uniform doesn't display the same work ethic in their job.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Regardless, I just want to know if I should iron the flag and wing patch, because I care enough not to look like a bag of ass.

If it is a practice in your squadron, then yes. If it isn't, then no  .

[abdsp51]

Appearance and job knowlege are not exclusive however when i was a flt chief it should generally in work ethic and in their qc scores. I'd rather have the person who knows their job and puts forth the effort to present a profesdional appearance than the person with the mirror boots and razor creases whos afraid to get dirty.

[Eclipse]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military, so keeping our uniforms in top shape, including ironing them and occasionally polishing our shoes, etc., isn't going to be onerous.

45 minutes before every meeting?  Silly, but there are people who enjoy the Zen of it.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since
rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

Further, the mindset of attention to detail (which, by the way, is one of the reasons uniforms are so exacting), is something every CAP member needs,
and far too many need to be reminded about.

To the OP:  There is no specification on the crease, so barring a unit SOP or wing supplement, it's your choice.
[opinion]To me, the flags and wing patches on the field uniforms are up too high to crease anyway.  Most cleaners start the crease at about 2-3 inches below the shoulder, because it looks a little weird any higher.[/opinion]

[AngelWings]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military, so keeping our uniforms in top shape, including ironing them and occasionally polishing our shoes, etc., isn't going to be onerous.

45 minutes before every meeting?  Silly, but there are people who enjoy the Zen of it.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since
rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

Further, the mindset of attention to detail (which, by the way, is one of the reasons uniforms are so exacting), is something every CAP member needs,
and far too many need to be reminded about.

To the OP:  There is no specification on the crease, so barring a unit SOP or wing supplement, it's your choice.
[opinion]To me, the flags and wing patches on the field uniforms are up to high to crease anyway.  Most cleaners start the crease at about 2-3 inches below the shoulder, because it looks a little weird any higher.[/opinion]

Seconded. I am the perfectionist mentality person.

[Al Sayre]

Very pretty, General. Very pretty. But, can they fight?

[davidsinn]

Very pretty, General. Very pretty. But, can they fight?

A combat ready division never passed inspection and an inspection ready division never passed combat...

[Buzz]

It only takes me ten minutes to drive to the corner and pick them up from the nice lady next to the 7-11.

How much does she charge for polishing your boots to a mirror shine?

My nearest cleaner when I lived on O'ahu was a 20-minute drive in the opposite direction from ANYWHERE ELSE that I ever went.  Here in Nevada it's only a . . .hmmm . . .20-minute drive in the opposite direction from ANYWHERE ELSE that I ever go . . .

[a2capt]

Heh, and here.. if I drive 20 minutes in any direction except due west, I probably pass 20 cleaners every time.

[Buzz]

Appearance always counts.  Period.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single person in CAP who wears their uniforms at the ops tempo of those on active duty in the military

This will come as a surprise to the folks at Maxwell.

But everyone has ten minutes to run an iron over their uniform and brush off their boots.

I don't carry an iron in my GoBag.

  CAP doesn't get the "working uniform" pass, since rarely do we use our uniforms that way. 

I'll remember that, the next time I spend three days on a SAR without getting home.

[Spaceman3750]

Personally I refuse to have my BBDUs dry cleaned... They get washed and go back in my bug-out bag (giant red duffel of doom?). My aviator shirt goes to the cleaners, and it's about $4, vs the $2 they charge me for regular shirts (I don't wear my aviator very frequently, I'm partial to the polo for routine squadron business).