New membership requirement: Internet / Email Access

[N Harmon]

Agree or Disagree:  CAP has made internet and email access a de facto requirement for membership by virtue of certain requirements only being able to be accomplished in eServices, and eServices requiring internet and email access.

Perhaps just as we require member photographs, we should require members have email / internet access as well. Thoughts?

[Patterson]

Agree! 

However, if a local unit can not communicate this requirement to a prospective member (or Parent of a prospective Cadet), shame on them.

This is 2011 and computers are everywhere.

Now, for the prospective members that refuse to use technology or let their children use it for various reasons, CAP is probably not a good fit.  (oh no....did I just discriminate against a group of people......you bet I did    )

[Eclipse]

Agree.

[kmbarnes1]

Tough Question, and it gets tougher when you think specifically about cadets. Some parents don't want their children having their own emails at 12-13-14 years old. I even have some cadets who are not allowed on the internet whatsoever when at home. All their testing is done before or after our squadron meetings. Once these cadets get to highschool and are of driving age, they can use the school computers or public library computers to do their testing so I feel as they don't have any excuse, especially when they have facebooks.

...Now, for the prospective members that refuse to use technology or let their children use it for various reasons, CAP is probably not a good fit.  (oh no....did I just discriminate against a group of people......you bet I did    )

I highly disagree with this statement. We cannot force parents to decide how they want to raise their children so we cannot force them to let their children have email addresses. There are plenty of dangers online. CAP is a great organization with loads of benefits to cadets and there are ways around this that would make parents happy, but require more work on the senior level side. If a cadet is not allowed an email address, I create one for them that they do not have access to (making the parents happy). But we can sign the cadets up on eServices and let them fulfill their CAP requirements online before, during, or after squadron meetings. If they forget their password, the ITO still has their email address and password on file and can reset their password, if necessary.

As for senior members... I think we should require that they at least have an email address. However, the squadron must also be able to provide them with a computer/internet access during meeting times. Other times, senior members can go to public libraries and use the internet there. Unlike Cadets, they don't need their parent's to drive them. For our senior seniors, squadrons should also have IT Officers who are able to teach them how to use the computer to access eServices and their email, at the very least.

We're having the same problem at our squadron with the new online safety course. At least 3 of our seniors do not have internet access or email. As ITO, I have set up two permanent computers in our squadron with internet access so they could use them. However, these seniors have to do CPPT, OPSEC, etc. before they can even get on eServices to take the safety exam!

[flyguync]

True this is 2011, and people still use checks, but we have a lot of older folks in CAP 70-90 that have no idea of how to turn on a computer much less use it. During the mandatory Intro to Safety circus, we had to baby 6 folks through it because they had never used a computer before, much less remember a login and password.

There needs to be, just like the Aircraft Ground Handling, a section to do a mass sign off that they have sat through the class and took the test.

[Eclipse]

Instead of being able to maximize our efforts and streamline operations, we spend 50% of our time hand-holding 5% of the membership, then we wonder
why nothing gets done.

[JeffDG]

Instead of being able to maximize our efforts and streamline operations, we spend 50% of our time hand-holding 5% of the membership, then we wonder
why nothing gets done.

And if you change this, you'll have the same problem somewhere else...Pareto's Law is absolute and cannot be broken.

[NIN]

Agree.  Its become a de facto standard (much like citizenship/legal residence or being 12 and completed the sixth grade).

Sadly, I still don't believe that the "penetration" of ubiquitous access to the Internet for youths is as high as NHQ believes it is.   Adults with jobs are in a position to have fairly continual access to the internet on a daily basis.   Youths, on the other hand, tend to be a little more "hit and run" with their access, with their interaction with the Internet often fleeting, via a mobile device, perhaps, or under a higher degree of parental supervision.

If you connected eServices to their Facebook IDs, you'd never get them off the darn thing..

(Think of it like this: My son is a Cub Scout. If his Webelo badge completions were all Internet based, and required that he have an email address, even in my highly-connection environment it would be tough for him.  Technically, he's not old enough to have a Gmail or Yahoo account.  Thankfully, BSA is smarter than that, but still)

But the sad truth is, cadet-aged kids are not as highly connected as we'd like to believe they are.

[flyguync]

OK so let put an age limit on CAP too, say 65 then we give you a retirement party along with a gift certificate to Dr Kevorkian.  Serves a two fold method, stops the handholding, and frees up government spending on old farts.

No, I have a sticker on my car, those that have came before me you will not be forgotten, as much as the grumpy old men get on my nerves, they have spent a long time with CAP and I think we owe it to them to help them out, just like they helped me out as a zit faced kid in 1992 when I joined as a Cadet, and we help out the new folks today.

As far as streamlining CAP, that hasnt happened in the 60 years its been around and I dont see it happening any time in the future, though my magic 8 ball and Miss Cleo are both fuzzy about that answer.

[RVT]

Agree or Disagree:  CAP has made internet and email access a de facto requirement for membership by virtue of certain requirements only being able to be accomplished in eServices, and eServices requiring internet and email access. Perhaps just as we require member photographs, we should require members have email / internet access as well. Thoughts?

This problem is actually a lot worse in the Coast Guard Aux where the average age of the membership is 15-17 years older than in CAP.  And thats NOT taking the lack of cadets into account.  I actually got an email from them asking if I knew how to use a computer.

[James Shaw]

I would have to disagree with the requirement or idea.

Many of the students we try to reach through the cadet program are in economically challenged areas and parents simply cant afford internet access. These days having a TV with cable service is a luxury for many people. Access available at the squadron level may be better, but we as an organization would hurt ourselves if we made it an individual requirement. This would not work in my opinion simply due to economics.

As a parent I personally allow my children to use the computer for homework and some online stuff. But I also have Parental Control software and it setup so they can to specific sites. My wife and I are very cautious about that kind of stuff, having been a LEO in the past. 

[Spaceman3750]

We can't expect cadets to be able to use school computers for CAP. I am in the technology department at a school district. The general idea of having computers for student use is to complement the curriculum, not to provide students with a way to complete things for "this weird thing called CAP". That constitutes a non-school use and is in violation of most AUPs I've ever seen. Furthermore, you can't even guarantee they'll have access to a computer at school. For example, in our middle school you must either be with a class in a computer lab or have a pass from a teacher to go to the library and use a computer. That means a student can't just cruise up to a computer and do whatever he wants. He must have a school-related academic reason to use a computer and be with a class or have a pass from a teacher. Basically, that means zero access for CAP purposes in most cases.

Unless you're going to encourage your cadets to lie to teachers/staff in order to get on for CAP, and if that's the case then you have bigger issues than cadets with lack of internet access.

[NIN]

Something else that just hit me on this:

Think of access to the Internet like the situation that existed before Rural Electrification or the concept of Universal Access with telephones.  Yeah, you had to pay for telephone service, but at least the phone company provided you with the physical premise equipment back then.

There are a lot of place here in the US where the socio-economic conditions are such that parents don't have a decent computer at home and don't have decent access to the Internet via that PC.  Students are generally restricted in what they can do and where they can go with their computers at school (ie. they can't spend 45 minutes taking OPSEC training during study hall). 
(EDIT: Oh, snap. Spaceman beat me to it!)

And accessing the Internet at the library has always been, in my experience, one of those great myths, like the Loch Ness monster.

[coudano]

we have a "if you don't already have an email address, sign up for gmail, it's free!" line in our app packet
cadets without gmail find themselves needing to get one real quick about the time they hit senior airman,
because our squadron does a lot of google docs, and once cadets hit phase 2 they need to be accessing those


i have already had to have a conference with a parent, when their kid went and signed up for gmail
without mom and dad's permission.

we worked it out, but that fell in the category of "not cool with mom and dad"

[NC Hokie]

I would have to disagree with the requirement or idea.

Many of the students we try to reach through the cadet program are in economically challenged areas and parents simply cant afford internet access. These days having a TV with cable service is a luxury for many people. Access available at the squadron level may be better, but we as an organization would hurt ourselves if we made it an individual requirement. This would not work in my opinion simply due to economics.

As a parent I personally allow my children to use the computer for homework and some online stuff. But I also have Parental Control software and it setup so they can to specific sites. My wife and I are very cautious about that kind of stuff, having been a LEO in the past.

Are you saying that internet access has not become a de facto membership requirement?  You've made a good case that it shouldn't be a requirement for membership, but the amount of online training that NHQ requires members to complete before becoming eligible to participate in our program paints a different picture.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I would also have to agree that internet access has become a requirement of CAP, both as a cadet and a senior member. I am sure that there are cadets with facebook and myspace accounts that don't ever touch eservices. For someone to get Opsec and their CAPT116 taken care of, if they don't have internet, we have to meet an hour early just so we can take care of that kind of stuff and still have time for our regular training.

[RiverAux]

Agree or Disagree:  CAP has made internet and email access a de facto requirement for membership by virtue of certain requirements only being able to be accomplished in eServices, and eServices requiring internet and email access. Perhaps just as we require member photographs, we should require members have email / internet access as well. Thoughts?

This problem is actually a lot worse in the Coast Guard Aux where the average age of the membership is 15-17 years older than in CAP.  And thats NOT taking the lack of cadets into account.  I actually got an email from them asking if I knew how to use a computer.

Disagree.    It is probably about the same.  Back when they had the Aux e-directory they posted the percentage of members with emails in the system and it was something like 70%.  I'd say that is close to if not somewhat better than the percentage of CAP members with CURRENT email addresses in CAPWATCH. 

As to the original post -- I'd say it needs to be a requirement for senior membership.  Given the comments regarding cadet computer access, I'd say we should not apply it to them.

[RVT]

]Disagree.    It is probably about the same.  Back when they had the Aux e-directory they posted the percentage of members with emails in the system and it was something like 70%.  I'd say that is close to if not somewhat better than the percentage of CAP members with CURRENT email addresses in CAPWATCH.

Figures for average age I have are 45 for CAP and 57 for CGA.  Here in District 11S they consider computer illiteracy among members to be a major issue.  Our Division (that being the CAP equivalent to a Group) website kind of sums up the problem.

http://a11404.uscgaux.info/

[RiverAux]

I was disagreeing with your statement that computer illiteracy is worse in CGAux than CAP, not the average age. 

Not sure what you were trying to say with linking to a CG Aux site that hasn't been updated since 2006.  There are probably just as many, if not more examples of outdated CAP sites than CG Aux.  Heck, I'd feel pretty confident that while there are about the same number of Aux units as CAP units, there actually are more active Aux websites since they have been proactive about developing templates for use of local units that just about everyone can use.  I'd say that most Aux units have websites while only a small minority of CAP units do. 

[tsrup]

I think it is safe to say that while internet/email/computer isn't a requirement by regulation, nor is it impossible to function in CAP without one, it is getting more and more difficult to progress or maintain any kind of currency without one.  A new cadet without a computer at home can almost expect their first meeting that they have a CAPID to be sat down in front of the squadron computer for the duration.  We lucked into a good bunch of computers for our squadron, so we can make things like testing work for the majority of our cadets at a given time, but I do not believe even for a second that that is a luxury shared by all squadrons.

Will I go so far as to say that it is a de facto regulation?  I'm not sure,

I will go to say that the way things are going, NHQ is basically expecting everyone to have some access to internet.


It will become increasingly more important for squadron commanders to convey this to new members as they come to our program.