Boonie Cover

[RiverAux]

CAP could approve a boonie hat matching the blue BDUs if they wanted to. 

I tend to agree that if there were significant safety benefits to wearing a boonie then the AF would authorize those guys on the ramp every day to wear them. 

[DNall]

No, we all get what happened w/ AF... I have to ask if some of that was timing with other issues in teh relationship alongside NEC just went & auth it under a safety flag & didn't follow the right proceedures. Makes it seem like they were trying to sidestep the AF uniform board to do what they want & that's a no-no.

CAP could approve a boonie hat matching the blue BDUs if they wanted to. 

I tend to agree that if there were significant safety benefits to wearing a boonie then the AF would authorize those guys on the ramp every day to wear them. 

Blows off into Engine, or takes off down the tarmac w/ airman running in tow right into spinny thing on front of plane... FOD! 

Rotate your people early & often, keep hydrated... you know the drill.

[lordmonar]

On a related but off topic subject.....when you compare the CGAUX with CAP...the CG does not have a major problem with weight and groom standards, while the AF seems to have this major fear that CAP will make them look badly.

Now part of this I know is our own fault....but really?  Why are they taking this to such levels?

By forcing us into corporates....they are driving the first wedge between USAF and CAP.  Hence one of the reasons why I like the new blue corporates.  It looks more USAF.  At least when we all wear blues (both usaf and CAP) an out sider can see that we are part of the same organization.  (That is why I wish they would wear the gray epaulets on the blue corporates).

[Dragoon]

Boonie covers are good and they look cool (let's not fool anyone). 

I think that's a matter of opinion. To me, they make everyone look like Gilligan.  Unless of course you roll the hat Aussie Style, in which case you lose the shade.

CAP's been around for over 60 years.  I wonder if old CAPers have a higher incidence of skin cancer than the general public, since we were denied boonies.

I'm thinking not.   

[Dragoon]

CAP could approve a boonie hat matching the blue BDUs if they wanted to. 

No need to approve it.  You can wear any civilian headgear you want with corporate uniforms (except the TPU).

Me, I'm going for a big 'ol sombrero.  In day glo orange.

[NIN]

That orange crap is a crazy Pennsylvania Hawk Mountain throwback.  For years PA has tried to say they will only wear orange hats because of safety.  I have only heard the military laugh at members as they parade around in thier orange hats.  Not to mention that hat is more expensive than the patrol cover. 

Just an FYI, the MI Wing "Group III Ranger" program (developed in the late 1970s, early 1980s by some non-Hawk Mountain folks) mandated the wear of the so-called "carrot top" hats in the field by students during the school.  I don't remember the specifics of the markings, but I seem to recall that it was the last three of your unit's charter number (ie. 117) in big black bold numerals.

Of course, then these hats start showing up at SAREXs, encampments, etc. Grrrrr.

So its not specifically a Hawk Mountain thing.

EDIT: Maybe they were just plain...

[mikeylikey]

Orange Hats started in PAWG back in the late 50's.  They were the only "authorized" orange hat in the country.  Those sutdents that came to Hawk in the later 50's and 60's took the hat back with them.  So in fact, the orange hat was a hawk thing.  We still can't get rid of that awful orange cover.   

[floridacyclist]

Next weekend, the only way I was able to get a permit to use the National Forest for our exercise was to promise to stay within 500 yards of houses (no legal gun discharge area) and wear orange hats and vests; the place will be loaded with hunters.

[RiverAux]

Thats odd.  Most modern rifle seasons are over by now.  Depending on where you are there could be muzzleloader or bowhunting going on, but there is some sort of hunting season open just about any time of the year in most places. 

[Chris Jacobs]

Next weekend, the only way I was able to get a permit to use the National Forest for our exercise was to promise to stay within 500 yards of houses (no legal gun discharge area) and wear orange hats and vests; the place will be loaded with hunters.

What kind of permit did you need?  I didn't realize that you needed a permit to do training in the national forest.  Obviously you want to work with the local ranger to coordinate, but i didn't know you needed a permit.  Or was it on the CAP side.

[RiverAux]

National Forests sometimes vary widely on when a special permit will be necessary to conduct various activities.

[floridacyclist]

General gun season runs until Jan 21 and this will be a long weekend, so I have no doubt the bubbas will be out in force.

They actually finally decided that we didn't need a permit since we had fewer than 75 people, and weren't camping or doing anything other than hiking. They still had me wondering if we'd even be allowed to take a simple walk in the woods and it took 3 weeks to get a final answer.

Lake Talquin State Forest on the opposite side of the highway would have been a natural choice as they don't allow hunting, but they expect a large number of horses out that day; we were lucky to be allowed in at all. I had to promise to try to keep everyone away from the horse trails.

Hard to believe I had this much trouble finding enough room for a proper exercise with a 500,000 acre national forest in my backyard; next time it won't be hunting season, so thing will be a little easier. We're looking at the Bradwell Bay area, so that should be fun.

[Dragoon]

I don't know about "safety" but we ran some experiments in our Wing a bunch of years back, and colored hats really help air ground coordination.  Even more than vests, as the vest get covered up with green LBEs and the like.

They also helped manage search lines.  Since your head is the highest point on your body, it's the point most likely to be higher than the surrounding brush and in view of your team leader.  Making it a bright color helps.

Yup, they look a bit dorky, but they can serve a purpose.

When I was a cadet, we wore yellow construction helmets in the woods.  Served a multitude of purposes including visibility and keeping branches from whacking you in the head.

[floridacyclist]

A few months ago we attended an exercise in Lake City and were all issued orange hats that we were told were mandatory to wear. I asked if they were trying to imitate Hawk Mountain and found out they had no idea what I was talking about. Once I saw the orienteering course, it all made sense as the whole field was grass a little over head-high. While you couldn't see ten feet in front of you from the ground, you could easily see all the teams from the observation platform in the middle of the field as they looked like little groups of orange domes weaving through the grass.

[Dragoon]

Yup, I hate the funny colored hats, but they do seem to serve a purpose.

[floridacyclist]

I find myself more and more in support of allowing a flourescent (they'll probably mandate orange) boonie hat for field ops. It would be very functional as far as UV safety and would be especially for air-ground coordination with that big ol' brim making it look like a big orange spot from the air.

As for public apearance, remember the professional pararescue guys from the Kim search? They wore what worked, not what looked the most military.

Besides, with something as ridiculous-looking as a big floppy orange hat, anyone with half an ounce of self-repect would shove it in a pocket if there was the least chance of being seen by the public LOL

[JohnKachenmeister]

Gene:

How about one with a propeller on top?

[Al Sayre]

If the prop is powered electrically (solar cells?) and blows cool air on my boiling skull, I'm in.

[floridacyclist]

I love the idea, the only problem I see (I know, I have to be a party-pooper) is that the goals of absorbing sunlight to create electricity and reflecting sunlight in order to be highly visible are both mutually incompatible goals

[JohnKachenmeister]

I think we've beat this one to death.  Let's find another thread where we can whine about the TPU some more!