Started by starshippe, March 01, 2011, 03:50:49 AM
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Quote from: Smithsonia on March 01, 2011, 04:15:52 AMBattle ships were the great prize. As of Dec. 7th 1941, no Carrier to Carrier battles had ever occurred. Aircraft carriers were thought to be raiders mostly and not decisive power projectors. Sinking the Bismark for instance was done as a stand off raider and not as a coordinated task force. Meaning carrier attack upon disputed land/island, port facilities, and ship convoy attack. Within in months - at first the Battle of Coral Sea and then Midway in May/June '41... the Carrier and task force concepts were proved out. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/coralsea/coralsea.htmAs of Pearl Harbor Battleships were kings of the sea. Before December '41 Carriers were an afterthought or perhaps "lesser" thought is the best word. As of the Doolittle Raid, Coral Sea and Midway, Carriers reigned supreme. By Spring '42 and after Midway, no major Naval Battle was ever again decided by a Battle Ship, in the Pacific Theater. What Navy accounts for this amazing transformational change in sea power tactics? Mostly the Japanese Navy which attacked Pearl Harbor from Aircraft Carriers.
Quote from: Smithsonia on March 01, 2011, 03:35:12 PM3. American Aviation Innovation versus Japanese. Once the Hellcat succeeds the Wildcat - the Zero becomes prey only. Result: The Corsair, Hellcat, and (Army) P-51 all were innovation with wings during a period that the once superior Zero remained static.
Quote from: Smithsonia on March 02, 2011, 05:29:11 PM2. The Oilers and in port refueling facilities remained largely untouched.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 26, 2011, 07:05:27 AMClose. The only CVBs were the three Midway-class boats. The Essex-class boats were a bit smaller. At one point, they were designated as CVS (ASW).
Quote from: AirDX on March 26, 2011, 06:25:47 AMWait... is this CAPTalk? I'm learning things and enjoying reading this!A minor quibble - up topic the US carriers are referred to as CVNs and the auxiliary "jeep" carriers as CVAs. CVNs are nuclear powered carriers, CVAs are attack carriers - full sized units.IIRC:Carriers were initially designated as CVs. The pre-war 8 were Langley, Ranger, Yorktown, Enterprise, Hornet, Lexington, Saratoga and Wasp.The two classes built during the war were the Essex class (called CVB - Aircraft Carrier, Large) and the Independence class (CVL: Aircraft Carrier - Light). The Escort carriers were initially called ACV (Auxiliary Aircraft Carriers) then later CVE (escort).Sometime during the war the Navy re-designated all the big carriers as CVA (Aircraft Carrier - Attack). The 2nd USS Enterprise was initially designated CVAN-65. In recent times the Navy has reverted to CV (Multipurpose Aircraft Carrier) and CVN (their nuclear powered sisters).
Quote from: AirDX on March 26, 2011, 07:32:55 AMQuote from: Smithsonia on March 02, 2011, 05:29:11 PM2. The Oilers and in port refueling facilities remained largely untouched.Here is one of those inexplicable things of history. Maybe there was a reason I don't know, maybe it has been lost in the fog of war. Why the Japanese didn't destroy the oil storage tanks along the NE side of Pearl Harbor is a good question. They are very plainly visible in the upper right of this photo:(Behind the tanks is a small lake (long since filled in) and a hill; I live on the left slope of that hill)Admiral Nimitz himself noted that "We had about 4.5 million barrels of oil out there and all of it was vulnerable to .50-caliber bullets. Had the Japanese destroyed the oil, it would have prolonged the war another two years..."It wasn't that the US Navy lacked awareness of this vulnerability; the Red Hill oil storage facility (beneath one of the mountain slopes in the background of the photo above), a stupendous facility consisting of 20 250 foot tall x 100 foot diameter POL storage tanks had been under construction since 1940. It was completed in 1943 and it's still in use today, one of the civil engineering wonders of the world. In fact, some of the lots in the subdivision where I live have easements for "secret" military tunnels underneath - where the pipelines pass to the harbor.Maybe the 3rd wave that the Japanese canceled that day would have been directed at the logistics elements of Pearl Harbor. I'm glad they failed in that aspect that day.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on March 29, 2011, 11:59:32 AMEd:As always, your analysis is incisive. But I would like to add one more observation. Something I have always found puzzling.The Japanese ARMY was suicidal in its fanatic, if pointless attacks, and defense to the death of islands. The Japanese NAVY on the other hand, was not so much. Almost any deviation or interruption of the plan would cause them to retreat. At Pearl, they withdrew without launching the third wave of attacks becuse of the absence of American carriers. They did not want the carriers to catch their fleet at sea, even though they knew that their fleet had both numerical and technical superiority.At Savo Strait, the Japanese withdrew after sinking 4 Allied cruisers, with the Guadalcanal invasion fleet a sitting duck.At Leyte Gulf, a small force of escort carriers and destroyers drove back a battle fleet.There are several other examples where the Jap. Navy failed to exploit initial success because the initial resistance was not figured into the plan. I just find that odd when compared to the fanatical resistance of the Army.Can you shed some light on this?
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