Camping

[ElectricPenguin]

I was wondering what the regs say about a 'squadron campout'. Not one that has to do with cap (NO uniforms) but one where cadets/NCOs and senior members could just get to know each other and have fun.

[bosshawk]

I am afraid that my idea of "camping" is a night at a Holiday Inn.

Have done the real thing in such places as Ft Bragg, Ft AP Hill, Ft Eustis, the DMZ in Korea, Germany, France and Dak To, Viet Nam.

Don't do that crap anymore.

You guys have fun, sleeping on those stones and tree roots, while it rains and snows: real fun!!!!!!!!

[ElectricPenguin]

I am afraid that my idea of "camping" is a night at a Holiday Inn.

Have done the real thing in such places as Ft Bragg, Ft AP Hill, Ft Eustis, the DMZ in Korea, Germany, France and Dak To, Viet Nam.

Don't do that crap anymore.

You guys have fun, sleeping on those stones and tree roots, while it rains and snows: real fun!!!!!!!!

Well... Not really the point... I was thinking sam houston national park...    It could be much worse during an FTX...

[Eclipse]

The challenge here is that you can play all the mental games you want about things not being CAP activities, "we all just met here randomly, etc.", but if something happens, separating your CAP relationships from personal ones will be nearly impossible.

Its one thing to have a family-style trip where all the cadets come with their parents, and everyone does their own thing but maybe meets up
for a few activities or meals, etc., another thing entirely if you want to go with your unit leadership but pretend you're not in CAP.

For starters, why would the adults want to take on the personal responsibility for you, without any assurance you will listen to them.

Not something I would be interested in - I have my own kids to go camping with.

[ElectricPenguin]

The challenge here is that you can play all the mental games you want about things not being CAP activities, "we all just met here randomly, etc.", but if something happens, separating your CAP relationships from personal ones will be nearly impossible.

Its one thing to have a family-style trip where all the cadets come with their parents, and everyone does their own thing but maybe meets up
for a few activities or meals, etc., another thing entirely if you want to go with your unit leadership but pretend you're not in CAP.

For starters, why would the adults want to take on the personal responsibility for you, without any assurance you will listen to them.

Not something I would be interested in - I have my own kids to go camping with.

Really? What ideas do you have to keep cadets in cap? And I guess it would be part of cap. Cadets won't misbehave if a senior member is to be in charge of them, atleast not the cadets I know at my homesquadron. Unresponsable cadets usualy never get through CAP very far and will just quit.

[jimmydeanno]

We used to do camping trips all the time. 

I don't think that the intent is to make it a "non-CAP event" CAP event.  I think the intent was to have a camping trip that didn't involve cadets filling out SQTRs or learning why the sparks go up the hot air column above the firepit - but rather a more relaxed unit get together.

[Major Lord]

From CAPR 52-16:

2-10. High Adventure Activities. With "challenge" being one of the key traits of cadet life (see paragraph 1-2), commanders are encouraged to offer cadets youth-scaled, high adventure activities (HAA). HAAs include rappelling, obstacle courses, low-ropes courses, water survival courses, and similar endeavors. Short day hikes, compass courses, and bivouacs are routine aspects of cadet life and therefore are not considered HAAs. The unit commander or activity director must brief the wing commander on the safety precautions that will be in place at any HAA, and in all cases, HAAs will be conducted only with the wing commander's written permission (e-mail is acceptable). Cadets must obtain written permission from their parent or legal guardian via a completed CAPF 31, Application for CAP Encampment or Special Activity, to participate in HAAs.

So it appears that camping per se is okay, as long as you identify it in french as a "Bivouac" and don't do any "High Adventure Activities" . I would suggest not bringing parents unless they are CAP members and been through the appropriate ceremonies ensuring that they are now incapable of molesting, abusing, or beating your little badgers. Bring enough Senior Members of both genders if possible, although not technically required (unless they are really hot!) to make sure that no one comes back pregnant. A Bivouac with Uniformed Cadets and Seniors present will be memorable, and a pleasant break from the tedium of Uniform  and Customs and Courtesy classes. Its also a great recruitment tool; You will get lots of visibility. Write an OPLAN, and cross your T's and dot your I's with a good safety plan ( First Aid, egress in distress, communications, emergency contact info, etc.)  I also suggest that you don't try to evade the fact its a CAP activity....it is. Have fun! DF practice ELT's, talk on the radio, build stretchers from BDU blouses and poles, kill a bear with a number 2 pencil ( A graduation requirement from Cadet Survival School) make semores and drink SwissMiss. DON'T Do Paintball, Rappell, or anything excessively fun.

Major Lord

[ElectricPenguin]

We used to do camping trips all the time. 

I don't think that the intent is to make it a "non-CAP event" CAP event.  I think the intent was to have a camping trip that didn't involve cadets filling out SQTRs or learning why the sparks go up the hot air column above the firepit - but rather a more relaxed unit get together.

Yes!  :clap:

[Eclipse]

Really? What ideas do you have to keep cadets in cap? And I guess it would be part of cap. Cadets won't misbehave if a senior member is to be in charge of them, atleast not the cadets I know at my homesquadron. Unresponsable cadets usualy never get through CAP very far and will just quit.

You need to decide which side of the fence you want to sit on, a CAP activity.  You specifically asked about this:

I was wondering what the regs say about a 'squadron campout'. Not one that has to do with cap (NO uniforms) but one where cadets/NCOs and senior members could just get to know each other and have fun.

I encourage and participate all the time in structured bivouacs, FTX's, Sarex's with a field component, etc.  These are the activities that keep cadets in CAP.  They also include the requisite command structure, uniform, courtesies, etc.

I have little interest in a social situation where we are just hanging out with no particular reason to be there.  Cadets don't join CAP to "hang out" - they join for the structure, the goals, and towards the accomplishments.  There's nothing wrong with hanging with your CAP buddies outside of CAP, just don't involve your leadership and don't plan it on a meeting night.

[ElectricPenguin]

Really? What ideas do you have to keep cadets in cap? And I guess it would be part of cap. Cadets won't misbehave if a senior member is to be in charge of them, atleast not the cadets I know at my homesquadron. Unresponsable cadets usualy never get through CAP very far and will just quit.

You need to decide which side of the fence you want to sit on, a CAP activity.  You specifically asked about this:

I was wondering what the regs say about a 'squadron campout'. Not one that has to do with cap (NO uniforms) but one where cadets/NCOs and senior members could just get to know each other and have fun.

I encourage and participate all the time in structured bivouacs, FTX's, Sarex's with a field component, etc.  These are the activities that keep cadets in CAP.  They also include the requisite command structure, uniform, courtesies, etc.

I have little interest in a social situation where we are just hanging out with no particular reason to be there.  Cadets don't join CAP to "hang out" - they join for the structure, the goals, and towards the accomplishments.  There's nothing wrong with hanging with your CAP buddies outside of CAP, just don't involve your leadership and don't plan it on a meeting night.

That may be your squadron, but it is not the same everywhere... The DCC talked with us about some extra events where we dont have to act all formal and such (such as visiting washington if we where to get the funds and such). What you want may not be the same as what others want. Cadets are still teenagers, 'fun' still needs to be involved everynow and then. Just by going to airshows (fun) with NCOs and senior members, trust can be made. You have to get to know people, other wise your just leading a sinking ship.

[Eclipse]

^ Your CDC (not DCC) thinking it is a good idea doesn't change the regulations nor the liability situation.

He can't take a group of you to DC and pretend he isn't your commander, nor can he plan anything out of state without Wing CC approval, and most
Wing CC's are going to toe the whole line in regards to cadet trips.

[ol'fido]

Combine the best of both worlds. Have a bivouac with all the appropriate approvals and conditions. On Saturday night(I am assuming you will be doing this on a weekend.), scheduled some time to go admin. Let everybody put on civvies if they so desire, invite the parents(or familiy units) out, throw some steaks on the grill and have a good "getting to know each other" time for a few hours. Then at lights out after everybody else leaves, return to your regularly scheduled programming.

This way you are CYA and the parents know it's just not a free for all at the campground. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

You would still need to observe CPPT (common sense)...even though it's not a CAP activity, you can still potentially get brought up on charges for something you didn't do.

I wouldn't recommend the non-CAP camping trip though, because you don't have the protections of CAP regs and coverage.

There's plenty of camping to be had at encampments, SAR training, etc. and you'll be in the familiar world of CAP.

[ElectricPenguin]

^ Your CDC (not DCC) thinking it is a good idea doesn't change the regulations nor the liability situation.

He can't take a group of you to DC and pretend he isn't your commander, nor can he plan anything out of state without Wing CC approval, and most
Wing CC's are going to toe the whole line in regards to cadet trips.

First of all, I do think I said DCC , And "He" is a "She".  And as I said, all it is an idea. Even paintball is in the regs.

[EMT-83]

You can do informal activities; just don't act as if it's not a CAP function. That means ORM, CAPF-60s, etc. Sometimes it's fun to just kick back and relax.

[ElectricPenguin]

You would still need to observe CPPT (common sense)...even though it's not a CAP activity, you can still potentially get brought up on charges for something you didn't do.

I wouldn't recommend the non-CAP camping trip though, because you don't have the protections of CAP regs and coverage.

There's plenty of camping to be had at encampments, SAR training, etc. and you'll be in the familiar world of CAP.

This is still training, you are always trying to get some kind of qualification at training places. As for encampments, I only want to go to just get it over with.  Can't squadrons do SOMETHING just to have fun for once? Everyone isn't in ES so FTXs and SAREXs woulden't work.

[ElectricPenguin]

Sometimes it's fun to just kick back and relax.

Thank you for understanding! :clap:

[Eclipse]

As for encampments, I only want to go to just get it over with.

This is an unfortunate and misguided attitude.  Most cadets I have asked will tell you their first encampment was one of their most memorable and
fun experiences in CAP.

Can't squadrons do SOMETHING just to have fun for once? Everyone isn't in ES so FTXs and SAREXs woulden't work.

To a certain extent.  No.

CAP is not a social organization, it is a leadership training and service organization, with the social aspects de-emphasizes by design.
That doesn't mean lots of CAP activities won't be fun, and cool, but it means CAP is what it is, and you need to find the enjoyment within those
bubbles.

The BSA is a much less structured organization and emphasizes the social more than the structure.  They offer a different scope and nature
of activities.  You'll go fun-camping a lot more, but you won't likely be getting blackhawk rides.  Everything has a trade-off.
(Here's where someone will kill their cat running to the screen to tell us how they got a blackhawk ride WIWAS).

[ElectricPenguin]

As for encampments, I only want to go to just get it over with.

This is an unfortunate and misguided attitude.  Most cadets I have asked will tell you their first encampment was one of their most memorable and
fun experiences in CAP.
i]

I keep thinking encampment will be like camp curry. Camp curry was terrable, NCOs didn't even know how to act. But Back to where we where, I don't know what squadron YOU are from, but I have known other squadrons including my own to go on a battleship (I think it was battleship texas, im not sure which one...) for a day and sleep overnight. THAT would be considered fun.

[Eclipse]

I keep thinking encampment will be like camp curry. Camp curry was terrable, NCOs didn't even know how to act.

It won't be by a long shot.  "Camp Curry" isn't even a recognized part of the cadet program curriculum.  It is just something local
units or wings do on their own recognizance with no over sight or specific expectations.

Encampments may not be the same across wings, but at their core they have a prescribed curriculum scope, and are overseen
by the State Director in each wing to insure compliance.

But Back to where we where, I don't know what squadron YOU are from, but I have known other squadrons including my own to go on a battleship (I think it was battleship texas, im not sure which one...) for a day and sleep overnight. THAT would be considered fun, and if cadets coulden't have extra events, then how come there is a reg for paintball?

Proving my posture a few threads ago (or maybe on CS?) that many cadets saw the word "paintball", and dropped 52-16 to make calls to plan games without reading the rest of the text.

Paintball is considered an HAA, and must be within a structured environment and approved by the wing CC.  Based on my personal experience with Wing CC's, most are never going to approve it as a matter of course.  There is also an ICL in place until the end of March which continues the full prohibition
until NHQ can provide further guidance on how and when paintball can be played.

Bottom line, you won't likely ever be able to plan a random game within just your local unit.