White aviator shirt

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The USAF has all ready stated that CAP will no have any type of distinctive uniform that resembles a military uniform.

I know, which is why I went the airline route for my ideas.

However, the "low-light/at-a-distance" directive from the USAF is so vague and so open to interpretation depending on one's knowledge of CAP or uniforms in general that about the only uniform we have that doesn't resemble a military uniform is the polo/grey...and even the USAF now has a "casual" uniform that uses a polo shirt.

As I've said, the grey/white is very close to what the modern German Army shirtsleeve dress order is.

If we need to clarify 39-1 in a lot of ways, the USAF needs to clarify that part of AFI 10-2701.

The only way we are going to have a separate uniform like the one you propose is to totally separate from the AF and have no ties to them what so ever.

The day we separate from the AF is the day I separate from CAP.

Did you mean my uniform proposals or Manfred's?

It is just too bad we can keep the CSU as it is and call it a day. 

It utterly boggles my mind as to why we cannot, with the modifications that General Courter mandated.  It would be logical.  But, as I said in another thread, logic goes down the pipe when the topic of CAP uniforms comes into play.

If we were to go with a new CSU, I think a modified air line uniform would look sharp(its aviation related). Just stay away from gold sleeve braid because we do not want to be mistaken for the US Navy or Coastguard. 

I would stay away from sleeve striping for another reason: it's a PITA to get changed if you get promoted.  Ask one of our resident U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliarists (I know, they don't have "promotions," but you get the idea).

Which is why my main proposal is this:

Commercially-available dark-blue airline pilot uniform with no sleeve striping.  Keep the white Van Heusen shirt.  CAP-only badges, CAP cutouts, existing blazer nameplate with rank affixed.  No changes to shirt insignia.


The thing I get a bee up my nose about is those who say we absolutely, positively have to stay away from any shade of blue.

"Blue" and "not having a military-style distinctive uniform" are not mutually exclusive.

(AlphaSigOU: My bad on the 1620/25)

[cap235629]

The USAF has all ready stated that CAP will no have any type of distinctive uniform that resembles a military uniform.

I know, which is why I went the airline route for my ideas.

However, the "low-light/at-a-distance" directive from the USAF is so vague and so open to interpretation depending on one's knowledge of CAP or uniforms in general that about the only uniform we have that doesn't resemble a military uniform is the polo/grey...and even the USAF now has a "casual" uniform that uses a polo shirt.

As I've said, the grey/white is very close to what the modern German Army shirtsleeve dress order is.

If we need to clarify 39-1 in a lot of ways, the USAF needs to clarify that part of AFI 10-2701.

The only way we are going to have a separate uniform like the one you propose is to totally separate from the AF and have no ties to them what so ever.

The day we separate from the AF is the day I separate from CAP.

Did you mean my uniform proposals or Manfred's?

It is just too bad we can keep the CSU as it is and call it a day. 

It utterly boggles my mind as to why we cannot, with the modifications that General Courter mandated.  It would be logical.  But, as I said in another thread, logic goes down the pipe when the topic of CAP uniforms comes into play.

If we were to go with a new CSU, I think a modified air line uniform would look sharp(its aviation related). Just stay away from gold sleeve braid because we do not want to be mistaken for the US Navy or Coastguard. 

I would stay away from sleeve striping for another reason: it's a PITA to get changed if you get promoted.  Ask one of our resident U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliarists (I know, they don't have "promotions," but you get the idea).

Which is why my main proposal is this:

Commercially-available dark-blue airline pilot uniform with no sleeve striping.  Keep the white Van Heusen shirt.  CAP-only badges, CAP cutouts, existing blazer nameplate with rank affixed.  No changes to shirt insignia.


The thing I get a bee up my nose about is those who say we absolutely, positively have to stay away from any shade of blue.

"Blue" and "not having a military-style distinctive uniform" are not mutually exclusive.

(AlphaSigOU: My bad on the 1620/25)

OK I will chime in now. I like this idea for a Corporate Jacket. It even looks similar to the current USAF service coat. I say standardize the color of the pants and stay gray. Add CAP Buttons.  I REALLY like the idea of the blazer name tag with rank affixed and keeping the white shirt. Navy blue tie, NOT the CAP "regimental" tie that is for the blazer. Add a Navy Blue Service Cap and away we go.  As it is very hard to acquire a garrison cap in Navy Blue, make the wearing of headgear optional and specify the service cap when worn.  For formal wear, mini medals and bow tie.

[SarDragon]

I don't particularly care what it looks like, as long as it can be worn by ALL SMs.

[arBar]

I don't particularly care what it looks like, as long as it can be worn by ALL SMs.

:clap: :clap:

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I don't particularly care what it looks like, as long as it can be worn by ALL SMs.

Completely agree!!!

[a2capt]

Perhaps I've missed it in all these threads over the last couple years, or more, but all this about low light, military look, etc, is this actually documented someplace or is this the result of a game of "telephone" (quote-a-phone)?

[AlphaSigOU]

Methinks the uniform wear brouhaha is swinging at one end of the pendulum; it might change when a new national commander takes office. Much that I liked the CSU, how it was ram-jammed behind the back of the RealAirForce® is primarily why Ma Blue is sore affronted.

I like the proposal above; make it single-breasted three-button with CAP 36 ligne buttons (in satin and not chrome finish). I wouldn't mind using the CAP-distinctive mess dress boards for grade instead of the blazer nameplate with grade insignia. (Keep the blazer nameplate, without the rank as an identifier.) If Ma Blue still has kittens sideways, then we could modify the boards so that the blue braid is gray and not silver and the Hap Arnold button is replaced with a 25-ligne CAP button. Instead of a permanent modification to attach shoulder boards, one could design a shoulder board attachment device that could be safety pinned (no frogs!) to the jacket's shoulders.

CAP-only ribbons, badges and aeronautical ratings. CAP cutouts on the lapels.

Drop the name tag and use mini medals for an acceptable mess-dress style uniform. Dark blue bow tie.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Perhaps I've missed it in all these threads over the last couple years, or more, but all this about low light, military look, etc, is this actually documented someplace or is this the result of a game of "telephone" (quote-a-phone)?

Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Organization And Function Of The Civil Air Patrol, page 8:

1.3.4. CAP Distinctive Uniforms and Insignia. The emblems, insignia, and badges of the CAP Air Force-style uniform will clearly identify an individual as a CAP member at a distance and in low-light conditions. The Air Force must approve changes to the CAP Air Force-style uniform. CAP distinctive uniforms must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces uniforms so that confusion will not occur.


About as vague and open to interpretation as can be, depending on your knowledge of uniforms and how good your eyesight is.  Someone wearing the G/W can easily from a distance be mistaken for a German Bundeswehr officer (they wear dark-grey pants and a white shirt, with a light-grey tunic).




I've used the example several times of an E-1 straight out of Lackland who knows nothing about CAP (as I would say is true of most of today's USAF), sees a CAP officer wearing the CSU, gripes to their first shirt about "someone playing officer," and the upshot is...the end of the CSU, and NHQ and the "corporate" side of our membership saying "grey is the only way."

The only thing the CSU had in common with the AF uniform was the colour, pants, and flight cap, but it's going, going, gone, for reasons that have not, and probably never will be, made clear.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Methinks the uniform wear brouhaha is swinging at one end of the pendulum; it might change when a new national commander takes office.

Hmm?  General Courter is the one who modified the CSU to make it more distinctive.

I like the proposal above; make it single-breasted three-button with CAP 36 ligne buttons (in satin and not chrome finish). I wouldn't mind using the CAP-distinctive mess dress boards for grade instead of the blazer nameplate with grade insignia. (Keep the blazer nameplate, without the rank as an identifier.)

Or use the current silver nameplate that says "Civil Air Patrol," as used on the CSU.

I suggested much the same thing about the mess dress shoulder boards months ago and got a less-than-warm reception because of the cost of the shoulder boards.  That's why I didn't suggest it this time.

One option might be to use AFROTC boards with CAP buttons.

The rights to these images belong solely to Vanguard.

Examples:

SMWOG


Flight Officer


Captain


Plus...Vanguard sells them (as you can see from the Vanguard copyright notice on the images, hope I didn't infringe!!!), so they'd make money.

If Ma Blue still has kittens sideways

It seems that the anticipation of this is greater than the reality.  I think it has been ever since the days of the "berry boards."

Instead of a permanent modification to attach shoulder boards, one could design a shoulder board attachment device that could be safety pinned (no frogs!) to the jacket's shoulders.

Snaps, with the "male" end affixed to the underside of the board, and the "female" end sewn onto the shoulder seam of the coat.

(No offence with the gender distinctions; I couldn't think of anything else to call them!) 

CAP-only ribbons, badges and aeronautical ratings. CAP cutouts on the lapels.

Drop the name tag and use mini medals for an acceptable mess-dress style uniform. Dark blue bow tie.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[SarDragon]

Instead of a permanent modification to attach shoulder boards, one could design a shoulder board attachment device that could be safety pinned (no frogs!) to the jacket's shoulders.

Snaps, with the "male" end affixed to the underside of the board, and the "female" end sewn onto the shoulder seam of the coat.

(No offence with the gender distinctions; I couldn't think of anything else to call them!) 

Actually, that's been done before, with the genders reversed regarding location of parts, on the original cadet officer shoulder boards. It was a PITA method, so they shifted to the Velcro, which is still a PITA method.

[FARRIER]

Bring back the Berry Boards [CyBorg starts grabbing chest]....kidding , now onto the serious stuff. I like the grey trouser/grey blazer combination stated earlier in the thread. I think one of the legacy air carriers used to use grey.

[BradM]

I would like something similar to the Colonial dress uniform   We could start with this and make CAP alterations.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

SarDragon: Yes, I've seen our cadets do the velcro, but without epaulettes I can't think of any way to affix the shoulder boards properly.  I was thinking that they would give a look similar to what the RAAF has, without all the scrambled eggs, aiguilettes and British blingage, of course:



FARRIER: That's not funny, not at my age (cue old image of Fred Sanford faking heart attack).

Seriously, as I said earlier, if it absolutely has to be grey, at least let us have an airline-blue shirt to break the black-grey-white colourless monotony.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

All gray and white does make me feel like USAF thinks we live in ordinuns.

[Eclipse]

I would like something similar to the Colonial dress uniform   We could start with this and make CAP alterations.

Works for me, I like their field uniforms, too.

[BradM]

or, for a white shirt and black tie, gray vest. This civilian tux look I can imagine looking great with CAP embellisments. With CAP pilot or observer wings (small size) and ribbons and rank on a tie tac. For dress occasions, perhaps?



And this on the lapel:

[manfredvonrichthofen]

or, for a white shirt and black tie, gray vest. This civilian tux look I can imagine looking great with CAP embellisments. With CAP pilot or observer wings (small size) and ribbons and rank on a tie tac.



And this on the lapel:

That is a joke right?

[BradM]

hehe partly, for dress occasions with others in dress mess it might work for the younger crowd and slimmer crowd.

You said yourself the Air Force jacket is based off a business suit. I had the idea to take a nice style of tux and convert it to a substitute for the dress mess and a nice style of business suit and do the same to substitute for the service coat. Where you can wear your CAP ribbons, badges, wings, and rank and also have a beard, goatee, or be a little overweight.

[Eclipse]

You said yourself the Air Force jacket is based off a business suit.

Yes, but your pic is like a movie vampire or Sherlock Holmes or somthing, besides, you just picked that pic because he has a beard!

[jimmydeanno]

You said yourself the Air Force jacket is based off a business suit.

Yes, but your pic is like a movie vampire or Sherlock Holmes or somthing, besides, you just picked that pic because he has a beard!

I actually think that the Tux is rather BA.  I'd wear it in a heartbeat as a tuxedo, not as a uniform though...

I'd probably look pretty dern good in it too...