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Gunny Couture
Recruit

Posts: 6
Unit: NCR-MO-018

« on: December 20, 2010, 08:40:35 PM »

So, I have been looking for a good pack to put my 24 hr. gear in. Everything I have found is between $100 and $200. I have been looking at 20 to 30 pound capacity bags with the ability to carry a bladder, with a decent amount of room. What do people recommend, is a 20 to 30 pound capacity realistic? Should I get a pack with lots of little pockets, or one big pocket..........?
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Cadet CMSgt. and First Sgt. "Gunny" Couture
HGjunkie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,620

« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 09:24:55 PM »

Bugout gear is a good brand to look into.
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retired
2d Lt USAF
DC
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,718

« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 10:23:38 PM »

If your 24hr gear weighs that much you're doing it wrong, IMHO. A simple backpack, or something like this should work pretty well. Vests are also nice if you are getting in and out of a vehicle often, much more convenient that having to take a pack on and off.

I'd recommend something with small pockets; 24hr gear contains a lot of small items, some of which you will need ready access to.
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IceNine
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,969

« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 01:10:45 AM »

10+ years on as a GTL.  I use THIS

If you can be a little patient you can find them on ebay and the like for about $30.  It does I need for 24 hour gear and UDF.  When I need water on me I put a camelbak underneath and off I go.  Otherwise I keep a few bottles in the car and that's usually good enough.
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"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4
vento
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 689

« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 12:24:37 PM »

10+ years on as a GTL.  I use THIS

This one makes perfect sense. Off to purchase one for myself right now...
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Senty7
Recruit

Posts: 32
Unit: SLCRS-MN

« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 12:27:10 PM »

Gunny...

My main "first-out" search pack is a Kelty Redwing 3200 ($60).  I've had it for seventeen years, and it doesn't show so much as a frayed stitch.  One main compartment, two side compartments (of which one holds my radio and spare battery perfectly), and two smaller compartments across the back, with lots of cinch straps and attachment points.  My unit doesn't use a "24-hour" template for gauging packs or load lists, but my basic load list is consistent with a CAP 24-hour rig.  Mine (operating area: Northern Minnesota) dresses out at seventeen pounds before I fill the water bottles.  Since a SAR truck (Chevy Suburban) is stationed at my house, it lives in there.  When worn, I don't even feel it back there. 

The Kelty RW replaced a Jansport that I finally wore out after fourteen years, which in turn replaced an old VietNam-era military LBE with buttpack.

My "first-out" pack in my POV is a 2009 Camelbak Alpine Explorer 2000 ($120), with a 100oz. (3L) capacity.  Since I may get paged from work and am not in a position to grab the SAR truck (someone else will eventually get it), it's outfitted virtually the same, and comes in at about seventeen pounds before I fill the bladder.  Given that it's 1200 c.i. smaller, I don't have as much reserve capacity to add round-out items tailored to the sortie, but it works well, and I was recently able to treat two injured hypothermic patients (full river submersion) for over an hour out of that pack. 

My "garrison" or "base camp" pack (consistent with your "72-hour" pack) is a Kelty Comanche 5000, which I picked up on sale for $80 about eight years ago.  Kelty's website doesn't show the Comanche as available any longer, but the Red Cloud ($200.00) appears to be the closest.  I can live out of it for several days, as well as dump its contents and reconfigure it for the "mother of all sorties," if that contingency ever arose.  Several folks on CAPTalk have mentioned simply using a suitcase, military duffle, aviator's kit bag, etc. in this role, and I certainly see no issue with that approach, either. The Comanche lives in the back of the SAR truck as well. 

As in all things CAPTalk, YMMV, but I hope this helps...

--Senty



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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,549

« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 12:35:40 PM »

Basic 24-hour gear will fit fully and comfortably in just about any school back pack, an LBV with a butt pack, Y-, or H-Harness with a few good mag pouches and a butt pack, or even a SARMED vest as ICENINE and most of the active members in my AOR wear.

$50 and a trip to Walmart is the gateway to GT these days, anything more than that means you have spent some time time in the field and know what you need, or have a dew shekels extra to spend.

In a CAP context, the harder and kewler it is, the less likely it is really appropriate to our needs.

The great thing about the SARMEDS is that they come in orange and yellow with retro-stripes, so they will meet whatever spec CAP throws at us, and they become your visibility instead of covering it.  You can find them on ebay for $25.  I replaced the star patch with velcro and ordered some nice color-matched nametapes from our favorite tape vendor.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 12:41:59 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Persona non grata
Banned

Posts: 351
Unit: LTC MAFIA

« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 01:55:24 PM »

I got a black colored bug out bag from MCSS a few years back for a fifty bucks, I have used it as carry on luggage and day trips.  While doing the CAP thing I can put a water bladder in it and pull out the kidney straps.

Good product and quality.
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Rock, Flag & Eagle.........
Senty7
Recruit

Posts: 32
Unit: SLCRS-MN

« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 06:12:46 PM »

Basic 24-hour gear will fit fully and comfortably in just about any school back pack, an LBV with a butt pack, Y-, or H-Harness with a few good mag pouches and a butt pack, or even a SARMED vest as ICENINE and most of the active members in my AOR wear.

$50 and a trip to Walmart is the gateway to GT these days, anything more than that means you have spent some time time in the field and know what you need, or have a dew shekels extra to spend.

In a CAP context, the harder and kewler it is, the less likely it is really appropriate to our needs.

The great thing about the SARMEDS is that they come in orange and yellow with retro-stripes, so they will meet whatever spec CAP throws at us, and they become your visibility instead of covering it.  You can find them on ebay for $25.  I replaced the star patch with velcro and ordered some nice color-matched nametapes from our favorite tape vendor.

A 60-dollar pack that lasts for decades "hard and kewl?"  Hardly.  "Good and functional?"   ;) Absolutely.  My Kelty has lasted 17 years, and I predict it will last another 17.  Current fixed costs to own:  about $3.50 per year and dropping.  How many missions will that Power Rangers school bag last?  I carried an LBE w/Y-harness for a long time, but I don't anymore.  There are better ways to go.  Gunny sounded like he was looking for functionality.  I merely shared my experience. 

Hmmm.  Folks who quote chapter and verse of every reg ever published, in a venue where a thread on gum-chewing erupts like Mt. Vesuvius, and you take a "good enough" philosophy to personal gear.   :o  Peculiar. 

There is a vast chasm between "having everything on the list," and being prepared to operate in the woods for several hours, much less the 24 that the spec is named after. 

Wait a minute...I'm sorry.   ;)  I thought ground teams walked in the woods, prepared to perform "emergency services."  My mistake...

--Senty

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JC004
[Insert Cool Title Here]
Global Moderator

Posts: 4,518

« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 06:33:08 PM »

I was going to say something like a Kelty Redwing 2650.  I like my 3100 and I just got a 2650 too.  Leftlanesports has it for $50 (blue and gray).  Overstock has an all-black for $67.99 but they only have a couple left.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,549

« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 06:47:13 PM »

There is a vast chasm between "having everything on the list," and being prepared to operate in the woods for several hours, much less the 24 that the spec is named after. 

There is also a vast chasm between a day pack, which is what we need, and the plate carriers some members show up wearing.

The majority of members, especially cadets, who tip their toes in ES will never see a decade of use, let alone the plural.  It it works for you, wonderful.  We're trying to impart some experience on what is useful.

Good advice is always free to be ignored.
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manfredvonrichthofen
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,881

« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2010, 06:57:08 PM »

I use a MOLLE pack, used to use the old ALICE pack as a cadet. Went into the Army and fell in love with the MOLLE ruck, the older two pouch style.
This
[img width= height= alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=350[/img]
Not This.
[img width= height= alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=349[/img]

This will carry anything and everything for what you need. Just detach the bottom pouch with the stuff you want to leave at your base camp and carry the rest of the pack and your gear as your 24 hr pack. If visibility is an issue for you get some reflective strips and sew them onto the pack and your good. The pack is very modular, you can change it around to fit what you need. Not to mention you can carry it forever without any discomfort.
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Senty7
Recruit

Posts: 32
Unit: SLCRS-MN

« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 07:17:57 PM »

There is a vast chasm between "having everything on the list," and being prepared to operate in the woods for several hours, much less the 24 that the spec is named after. 

There is also a vast chasm between a day pack, which is what we need, and the plate carriers some members show up wearing.

The majority of members, especially cadets, who tip their toes in ES will never see a decade of use, let alone the plural.  It it works for you, wonderful.  We're trying to impart some experience on what is useful.

Good advice is always free to be ignored.

I don't recall mentioning that I wear a plate carrier.  And I believe people will find my experience useful, as I believe you believed the same for every one of your 10,000+ posts. 

The Kelty RW is indeed a daypack.  Besides its SAR role, it goes to the stand with me during deer season, very rarely on planned overnighters (since it is, after all, a daypack), and (I suppose) it could work for school books, too.  I never planned on it lasting as long as it did, for which I am pleasantly surprised. 

Good advice is also free to be allowed to flourish or wither on its own merits, and not constantly disputed, debated, or corrected, as is so common the case with the culture of CAPTalk.

V/R

--Senty
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,549

« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2010, 07:24:02 PM »

Good advice is also free to be allowed to flourish or wither on its own merits, and not constantly disputed, debated, or corrected, as is so common the case with the culture of CAPTalk.

OK, I'll bite, who "disputed" your advice?
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manfredvonrichthofen
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,881

« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2010, 07:24:45 PM »

The thing about gear is that it needs to suit the users needs. That is all there is to it. Sure it might look weird or be over the top but if it works for them then so be it.
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Senty7
Recruit

Posts: 32
Unit: SLCRS-MN

« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2010, 07:42:38 PM »

Basic 24-hour gear will fit fully and comfortably in just about any school back pack, an LBV with a butt pack, Y-, or H-Harness with a few good mag pouches and a butt pack, or even a SARMED vest as ICENINE and most of the active members in my AOR wear.

$50 and a trip to Walmart is the gateway to GT these days, anything more than that means you have spent some time time in the field and know what you need, or have a dew shekels extra to spend.

In a CAP context, the harder and kewler it is, the less likely it is really appropriate to our needs.

The great thing about the SARMEDS is that they come in orange and yellow with retro-stripes, so they will meet whatever spec CAP throws at us, and they become your visibility instead of covering it.  You can find them on ebay for $25.  I replaced the star patch with velcro and ordered some nice color-matched nametapes from our favorite tape vendor.

 ::) Uh, are there any in here?

I was, however, speaking more in the abstract.  I don't think anyone can deny it happens a lot here. 

In my short time here, I have seen the core value of "respect" cited frequently.  I see a lot of disrepect here, and at times, downright rudeness.  You once posted that someone's opinion was "utter nonsense." Nothing else.  No defense; no counterpoint.  Just "utter nonsense."  Maybe I'm jaded because I come from the land of "Minnesota Nice."  But I see a lot of, what appears to me from my admittedly limited perspective, some folks trying to show how clever they are. 

Apologies to the moderators for thread derailment.  Gunny asked for advice on a search pack.  I gave it, from 31 years' experience walking in the woods on SAR missions.  That's all I hoped to do.  I should know better...

Still V/R

--Senty
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IceNine
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,969

« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2010, 11:02:52 PM »

For the purpose of saving you heartache I'll just say....  Airing your dirty laundry should probably take place behind closed doors.  I would suggest that you stick to this topic, and don't pick fights for no reason.

Absolutely no one has disputed, questioned, or even commented on the value of your posts.  You are literally working the coals and starting a flame war all by yourself.

As for actual value, anything that carries your gear and accomplishes the mission is good enough.  I haven't actually carried everything on the pack list since I got qualified.  There is a lot of nonsense on there for my AOR its specific missions.  You will find what works for you, what doesn't and move on.  Rule of thumb that I use- If you haven't reached for it in 5 missions you probably don't need it.  If you have reached for it ever- add it to your pack.

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"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4
Senty7
Recruit

Posts: 32
Unit: SLCRS-MN

« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2010, 11:27:24 PM »

You're right, of course.  I respectfully withdraw. 
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SLC7127
Newbie

Posts: 1

« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 03:00:32 AM »

Gunny, 
I am pleased you ask advise from experienced people in the know.  One piece of advise I give the newbies where I work, is.... "those who talk the most, don't always know the most".  I'll try to keep this short.  :) 

My first out / day pack / 24 hour pack is in the 3000 cubic inch range, plus or minus.  Loaded, it weighs about 28 pounds before water.  This pretty much includes the kitchen sink.  I rarely take it out fully loaded.  The reason I don't is, I'm usually on the tail end of a 10 meter trailing lead being pulled by an 85 pound bloodhound.  When I go out in "human tracking" mode, the pack has more "stuff" in it.  I am fortunate enough to have a Durango at home used to transport my bloodhound.  I have room for lots of gear in the truck.  My pack can be quickly restocked, reorganized or reconfigured with gear necessary depending on the mission profile. 

One large duffel style bag is used for "bad" weather gear.  Rain, wind, snow and cold are not an issue with this along.  Another duffel holds extra clothes.

I help teach a class on Tactical EMS.  One of our week long teaching points is.......  "Less is More".  Gear stored at the CP is good.  The "necessary" gear on your back is what makes the mission a success.

I think a bladder system is a must.  30 pounds is very realistic.  Multiple pockets help keep gear organized and help keep the load balanced. 

The old style ALICE gear should be available at a reasonable price.  The newer style MOLLE vest gear is great, however at a premium price.  I don't consider a "book bag" suitable.  It's not designed to carry stuff all day in the woods.

Things to consider...  What is your mission?  What will you need?  How long will you be out?  What time of day is it?  What is the current weather?  What is the expected weather?  What "team" gear will the other team members be carrying?

Closing thoughts.  "Good Enough.......Ain't"  Get what works for you!
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ElectricPenguin
Suspended

Posts: 289

« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2011, 06:49:41 PM »

This is what i have:   http://www.amazon.com/NcStar-CPV2915B-Molle-Pals-Black/dp/B00399FK4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3Y9KFTRHIWN8&colid=DOK5PLXJNGBS

It has a build in camelbak and i LOVE IT!!! It has more space then i thought, there are 4 pouches inside of it where you have enough space to put 4 of the green books in it. I carry all my gear in it but i also have 2 MOLLE pouches which keeps some of the bigger stuff.
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tsrup
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 738
Unit: NCR-SD-031

« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2011, 07:09:48 PM »

10+ years on as a GTL.  I use THIS

If you can be a little patient you can find them on ebay and the like for about $30.  It does I need for 24 hour gear and UDF.  When I need water on me I put a camelbak underneath and off I go.  Otherwise I keep a few bottles in the car and that's usually good enough.

I'm a little leery of advocating any equipment with the star of life on it by those who are not appropriately rated as EMS.  Go ahead, buy the vest (it looks great and extremely practical for our standards), but by all means remove the star.  It sends the wrong message and may be confusing to those who are unfamiliar with what we do and what we are allowed to do. 
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Paramedic
hang-around.
titanII
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 658

« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2011, 07:52:33 PM »

While all the little packs are nice and all, the fact of the matter is that to have smaller gear (sleeping bag, sleeping pad, etc.); you will generally have to pay more. The same is true if you want a durable, comfortable, pack with good features. I don't like it, but that's just how it is. However, you can generally get a pretty good pack for about $20 on either side of $100. Mine was $80 and some change, and I've never had a major quip about it. I use it for 3 day backpacking trips, sometimes more, and it's great. But it you're willing to shell out some extra $$$ to be comfortable and travel light, then I would recommend buying a pack about this size: http://www.campmor.com/kelty-redwing-3100-rucksack.shtml?source=CI&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=90288. It is a bit cheaper, and you can usually stick your sleeping bag in the bottom and strap your pad to the bottom- it has loops there. It also has a space for a reservoir, as well as good straps and a single Aluminum stay in the back for structure/support. Good luck, and I recommend buying out of season and/or right before the new models come out. They're usually about $20 or so cheaper.
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m981
Recruit

Posts: 26

« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2011, 02:39:34 PM »

I liked the looks of the kelty 3100, so ordered from campmor. It arrived in about 2 days and suits my needs nicely, Good tip. :clap:
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LTC. CAP
Spaatz
Wilson
JC004
[Insert Cool Title Here]
Global Moderator

Posts: 4,518

« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2011, 01:37:10 PM »

I use that and my 2650 constantly. 
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ECHO35
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: C2/19 TH

« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2011, 08:28:41 PM »

If you have to carry stuff for 24hrs or perhaps more my personnel favorite pack is the Osprey talon 22 / or the stratos 34. I also still carry the old school rucksack which I just cant seem to git rid of.
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chickenjoe
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2011, 02:20:29 PM »

I have a 3 day assult pack that works excellent and it has all the room you ned with molle and bladder pack pockets
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clay
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: SWR-OK-002

« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2011, 03:52:14 PM »

I have a 3 day assult pack that works excellent and it has all the room you ned with molle and bladder pack pockets
What type of assault pack is it? I was thinking about getting a 3 day assault pack for my 72 hr. pack and getting a vest for my 24 hour pack. Does any one know of any good vest with a good amount of space but around/ under 50$?
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