Where to find white on blue patches?

[CAP Producer]

I have seen CAP Cadets wear RM insignia like Jump Wings, the CIB, the German Armed Forces Badge for Military Proficiency, German Armed Forces Badge of Marksmanship and many RM ribbons.

These were reservists/guardsmen who were activated for tours in the sandbox or in ROTC and earned them via their service in the reserve components. They remained reservists/guardsmen during their tours, so they could remain as cadets.

There was an example of a news letter item I published on a young man who had earned his Spaatz and had just gotten back from Iraq. he served in I believe a guard unit, earned a CIB, jump wings during his training and sported several decorations (ARCOM with a V was his top award.)

He was wearing these awards along with his CAP stuff as he recived his Spaatz award from an Army 2 star.

I got complaints about publishing this piece because the cadet was out of uniform. The complaining members got cups of STFU from their Wing CC's  and nothing else was said about it.   

[tsrup]

The point I'm making is that a Cadet in fact can wear RM badges and ribbons that he/she has earned while in the National Guard/Reserves. 


I think the reasoning for extending Cadet membership to members of the Reserves/Guard is that many of them are full time students while serving.

Sir, I must go to bed- but check 39-1. I'm fairly certain that CAP also has a "no RM items on cadets" clause/policy.

Goodnight and happy hunting!

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence. See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.
a.Three JROTC/ROTC ribbons awarded by military departments may be worn following all other
ribbons (except foreign ribbons) while the member concerned is participating in the JROTC/ROTC
program.
When the member is no longer participating in the JROTC/ROTC program, JROTC/ROTC ribbons will be removed.

I see no restriction from Cadets wearing the above items, and find it hard to believe that we would restrict a serving cadet from wearing his/her ribbons badges from Guard/Reserve duty while allowing cadets to wear JROTC/ROTC ribbons.

though stranger things have happened as a result of 39-1

[manfredvonrichthofen]

A cadet in the Reserves or NG cannot deploy and stay cadets. 39-2 states

Cadets who join the National Guard or Reserves are not required to become seniors upon attending "basic training. " Regardless of the wording of the orders, "basic training" is not interpreted by CAP as "extended active duty." However, National Guard or Reserve members who enter "extended active duty" are not eligible to be cadets and must become senior members.

When Reserves and NG are deployed that is classified as extended active duty.

[Hawk200]

When Reserves and NG are deployed that is classified as extended active duty.

I agree, and wonder why there are cadets that end up deploying and remaining cadets. It's one thing for a cadet to have a boot camp ribbon, and the "give away" awards like National Defense and GWOT-S, but one with a CIB and combat jump wings is another animal altogether.

The only thing I can think of is that National considers an active duty enlistment as "extended active duty." Can't say I agree with the thought process. It needs to be clarified.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

When Reserves and NG are deployed that is classified as extended active duty.

I agree, and wonder why there are cadets that end up deploying and remaining cadets. It's one thing for a cadet to have a boot camp ribbon, and the "give away" awards like National Defense and GWOT-S, but one with a CIB and combat jump wings is another animal altogether.

The only thing I can think of is that National considers an active duty enlistment as "extended active duty." Can't say I agree with the thought process. It needs to be clarified.

It is a different beast, Cadets shouldn't be wearing the CIB or campaign ribbons and things of that sort. Even going to Benning or Bragg for jump school is extended active duty. Now an EIB could be achieved at the home station. But that is it.

[PHall]

When Reserves and NG are deployed that is classified as extended active duty.

I agree, and wonder why there are cadets that end up deploying and remaining cadets. It's one thing for a cadet to have a boot camp ribbon, and the "give away" awards like National Defense and GWOT-S, but one with a CIB and combat jump wings is another animal altogether.

The only thing I can think of is that National considers an active duty enlistment as "extended active duty." Can't say I agree with the thought process. It needs to be clarified.

They stay cadets because no one tells National that Cadet Johnny has been activated for 18 months for a deployment.
If the cadet or even their Squadron Commander had a bit of integrity they would notify National.

[Patterson]

They stay cadets because no one tells National that Cadet Johnny has been activated for 18 months for a deployment.
If the cadet or even their Squadron Commander had a bit of integrity they would notify National.

You can start with this guy here.....

I got complaints about publishing this piece because the cadet was out of uniform. The complaining members got cups of STFU from their Wing CC's  and nothing else was said about it.   

To be perfectly honest, the Cadet was out of uniform, because he should have been wearing a Senior Member uniform.  So instead of getting crap from raising legitimate questions, the complaining members should have been credited with being good observers!!

Like others have said.....one thing to go to Basic Training, it is entirely and totally different to go to WAR.  Going to kill others in combat should equate to becoming a Senior Member.  I am curious that if this Cadet did in fact deploy......how did he stay active?  I bet National even knew he was deployed.  So we are now allowed to pick and choose what regulations we wish to follow??

This is not about that guy and his Spaatz or his military badges, but about the integrity of the Senior Members who personally knew him and who knew the rules.   

[Hawk200]

Even going to Benning or Bragg for jump school is extended active duty.

This would seem to be a matter of personal viewpoint. If basic training for a Guard enlistment isn't considered extended active duty, why would jump school (which is only three weeks) be considered extended active duty?

Of course, the problem here is the personal viewpoint. To eliminate the personal viewpoints, the reg needs clarification. If National were to say that anything over the length of IET/AIT is active duty, then that's something to work with. We may disagree with National's definition, but if they spell it out, we salute and execute because we have a hard rule to work with.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Jump school is extended active duty because it is not a job required school. It is an elective school. The ONLY TWO units that REQUIRE jump status is 82nd ABN and being stationed in ITALY. It is considered TDY for AD soldiers, but for reserve and NG soldiers it is EAD because the service status is changed to AD on the orders.

[Custer]

Jump school is extended active duty because it is not a job required school. It is an elective school. The ONLY TWO units that REQUIRE jump status is 82nd ABN and being stationed in ITALY. It is considered TDY for AD soldiers, but for reserve and NG soldiers it is EAD because the service status is changed to AD on the orders.

Ranger and Special Forces units all require it.  40th division ARNG has an infantry scout company that is also airborne.  82nd may be the only full division that requires it but we have smaller units all over the place.

[Hawk200]

...but for reserve and NG soldiers it is EAD because the service status is changed to AD on the orders

You equate active duty to "extended." I wouldn't. Even when a Guard troop goes to an AD school, they're still on Title 32 orders (referred to as Full Time National Guard Duty) which are regarded differently than Title 10 ones. It gets a little funky because Active Duty Special Work (ADSW) is considered "active duty" (and are Title 10 orders) and not "full time National Guard" duty.

Due to the fact that we even have a difference in opinion shows that it needs to be spelled out in the regs. If you were the National CC and decided that anything labeled "active duty" means "extended active duty" then we'd have a clarification and a hard rule. We need to spell it out, and not leave it to opinion.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Your right, it does need spelled out, that is why we need to have the updates in the regs so that it is no longer up for opinion.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Well, back to my original question, does anyone know of a place to order white on blue skill badges that I don't have to call and special order them?

[Custer]

Well, back to my original question, does anyone know of a place to order white on blue skill badges that I don't have to call and special order them?

Fortunately for me all I need are basic jump wings which are probably the most common military badge.  And considering how California seems to have gotten away from senior members using BDU pretty much for anything at all I'm wondering if thats really an issue.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

According to the CAWG supplement to the 39-1

It is the policy of CAWG that the CAWG GT uniform is authorized for wear by members
actively participating (as defined below) as a member of a Ground Team or UDF team on a
ground search sortie (training or actual). At all other times members must wear other uniforms
in accordance with CAPM 39-1. When appropriate, it is recommended the member convert the
CAWG GT uniform to the CAP Blue Field Uniform by wearing the Blue BDU Blouse with
appropriate patches.

But that says that otherwise you should wear the appropriate uniform, meaning that you can still wear the BDU uniform if you wish. 39-1 states what is and is not allowed as an over all. They say we can wear BDU uniforms if you meet height and weight standards. So  I will.

[PHall]

Your right, it does need spelled out, that is why we need to have the updates in the regs so that it is no longer up for opinion.

Extended Active Duty is Active Duty Tour of 180 days or more. You get all of the bennies if you're on EAD.
Why do you think most Guard/Reserve Active Duty tours are 179 days?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Your right, it does need spelled out, that is why we need to have the updates in the regs so that it is no longer up for opinion.

Extended Active Duty is Active Duty Tour of 180 days or more. You get all of the bennies if you're on EAD.
Why do you think most Guard/Reserve Active Duty tours are 179 days?

By tours do you mean deployments??

[SarDragon]

Your right, it does need spelled out, that is why we need to have the updates in the regs so that it is no longer up for opinion.

Extended Active Duty is Active Duty Tour of 180 days or more. You get all of the bennies if you're on EAD.
Why do you think most Guard/Reserve Active Duty tours are 179 days?

By tours do you mean deployments??

Not necessarily. Any assignment exceeding 179 days counts.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

What PHall said was most Guard/Reserves tours are 179 days. PHall are you talking all tours including deployments?

[PHall]

Deployments are a totally different animal. A deployment usually involves the entire unit being mobilized.

Active Duty "tours" come in several flavors.
There's Active Duty For Training, a School Tour where are going to a formal school (i.e. Airborne School or Air Assault School), Special Tour, Annual Tour (i.e. Summer Camp), and Active Guard/Reserve Tour.

Which one you're on depends on the purpose for your tour and where the money is coming from.