CAP Decorations: DSM, ESA, MSA, etc.

[lordmonar]

Okay....just to throw out a for instance.

Large three wing Encampment:

Everyone on staff gets and acheivement Award.
The Top 10% or so get a Commander's Commendation.
The Commandant/Director gets the Mertorious Sevice Award.

Justification.

The director of the encampment is not a "normal" duty for anyone in CAP.
The Commander's Commendation to the top staff performers...those who truely went above and beyond the actual staff job they were "hired" for.
The Acheivement Award for everyone...because Encampment Staff is a dirty thankless job and we need to honor those who gave up their time and effort for the betterment of CAP.

[DBlair]

Okay....just to throw out a for instance.

Large three wing Encampment:

Everyone on staff gets and acheivement Award.
The Top 10% or so get a Commander's Commendation.
The Commandant/Director gets the Mertorious Sevice Award.

Justification.

The director of the encampment is not a "normal" duty for anyone in CAP.
The Commander's Commendation to the top staff performers...those who truely went above and beyond the actual staff job they were "hired" for.
The Acheivement Award for everyone...because Encampment Staff is a dirty thankless job and we need to honor those who gave up their time and effort for the betterment of CAP.

You raise an interesting point about Encampments. Realistically, it isn't 'normal duty' for anyone to lead/staff an encampment. I wonder how often Encampment Staff are actually recognized with such awards.


I bumped this thread after a while of dormancy due to this award topic coming up in a discussion this past weekend... In summary...

It seems we don't recognize our people enough, or in the right way. Many members feel soured when they see people being given high level awards (DSM, ESA, MSA, etc) merely for holding certain positions, when others at lower-profile positions are doing some amazing things and for quite a while, but then are never recognized, or are recognized merely with a Certificate of Appreciation. A member not feeling appreciated quite often leads to less of a willingness to go out of their way to help, or may lead to inactivity or non-renewal.

This raises a few points...

First, when a member is going out of their way to do amazing things and then isn't recognized, they don't feel appreciated, and it only adds to it when certain others being given awards like candy, regardless of actual performance. We should recognize members for their contributions- not just for showing up or holding a position, but rather those members who work hard to make things happen.

Secondly, it seems that 'Certificates of Appreciation' are given to rank/file members quite a bit more often, but you can't wear a certificate or even a plaque. Afterall, wasn't the Achievement Award created essentially as a wearable Certificate of Appreciation? Members often see a Certificate of Appreciation almost in a *rolling eyes* sort of disappointment.


As was asked in the discussion this past weekend, an important question to consider is:
Why don't we recognize more members with decorations?

Some of the most common responses were:

1) Many members assume it is [exclusively] a Commander's place to put someone in for a decoration, and that they (as a rank/file member) would feel out of place putting someone else in for an award.

2) The "what about me?" sort of mentality in that they question why they should bother putting in someone else for a decoration when they themselves are never recognized.

3) Some members assume that pretty much anything is just 'normal duty' and not worthy of a ribbon.


Any thoughts?

[flyboy53]

Certainly every volunteer needs recogniton for their sacrifice but does everyone really need a decoration?

There are three problems with awards and decorations. First, the recommender needs to have the confidence to submit a recommendation that has merit and will be taken seriously if boarded and by the approving authority. That is why there is an Achievement Award approved by a group commander because a recommendation for a Commendation or Meritorious Service Ribbon may not have merit when screened at wing or region. Second, comes the cost of the ribbon and/or minature medal if you really want to do it correctly. A certificate, really, is just another certificate. And, third, decorations and ribbons have a way of becomming inflated after a while. Just look at our own ribbons. There's one ribbon with various attachments just for completing every level of the PD Program (that's almost two full rows). Imagine also if everyone earned Commendation Ribbons? Woud that ribbon still be a valid form of recognition. I don't know how many times I've seen someone submit recommendations, without merit, for things like the Lifesaving Ribbon.

[DBlair]

Certainly every volunteer needs recogniton for their sacrifice but does everyone really need a decoration?

There are three problems with awards and decorations. First, the recommender needs to have the confidence to submit a recommendation that has merit and will be taken seriously if boarded and by the approving authority. That is why there is an Achievement Award approved by a group commander because a recommendation for a Commendation or Meritorious Service Ribbon may not have merit when screened at wing or region. Second, comes the cost of the ribbon and/or minature medal if you really want to do it correctly. A certificate, really, is just another certificate. And, third, decorations and ribbons have a way of becomming inflated after a while. Just look at our own ribbons. There's one ribbon with various attachments just for completing every level of the PD Program (that's almost two full rows). Imagine also if everyone earned Commendation Ribbons? Woud that ribbon still be a valid form of recognition. I don't know how many times I've seen someone submit recommendations, without merit, for things like the Lifesaving Ribbon.

You bring up a good point, and I agree. While every member should be appreciated, not every member deserves to receive an Achievement Award or a Commander's Commendation- these should be reserved for those who really make things happen and who do an outstanding job. The same goes for DSM, ESA, and MSA- they should be to truly high performing members and not just as a result of holding a certain position regardless of performance.

Likewise, I agree with you about certificates. While some may disagree with me, a certificate is just another [essentially] meaningless certificate if it isn't tied to a ribbon. Most members like to show their accomplishments on their uniform and so a 'certificate of appreciation' to reward a member for outstanding performance isn't really much appreciation at all.

A Lt Col who has been in CAP for probably 25-30 years mentioned to me that he would gladly trade in all of his *many* 'certificates of appreciation' for just a single Achievement Award- this just shows how many members view certificates vs ribbons.

As for submitting the CAPF120s, it seems that rank/file members feel that if they (as a "nobody" ...as a local member stated) submitted it, they doubt it would be approved by the unit commander, let alone stand up at higher echelons. It seems quite a few unit commanders unfortunately see a certificate of appreciation as sufficient, and then wonder why these high-performing members feel unappreciated.

To be honest, I feel much of the lack of putting members in for decorations comes from a mindset of "...why should I put someone else in for a decoration when I myself am never recognized with decorations..."


While filling out a CAPF120 for someone recently, I noticed something... there is a space to list previous decorations and dates. This made me wonder if this was part of the determining factor in approving decorations. For example, no MSA awarded without a few prior CC, or something of that nature? Any thoughts or insight?

[lordmonar]

No one is suggesting that "everyone" get a medal.

"everyone" get the Red Service Ribbon.....but that is it.

The question is that there is a point between "single handedly saved the univers from the invading Triffids" and "he showed up most of the time and we did not have to yell at him much" to get a blood CAP Acheivment Medal.

I got no problem with giving away medals to squadron officers (and Cadets) who "just do their jobs".

Because they don't have to do anything!  The can just show up sit in the back and drink their coffee and wait for the next SAREX or call out for the next SAR.

So....2d Lt Cadet'sMom who does the paper work or drives cadets to the meeting is by definition going above and beyond what any other CAP member has to do.

Is it still an effective tool?  I think so.  Will it work for everyone?  No...but nothing ever does....that's why it is called situational leadership.

[Eclipse]

^ That's the problem, some feel that way, others (and the regs) disagree.

Simply doing your job is not, IMHO, enough to warrant a decoration, if it were, they would be automatic as well.

The other issue is the inconsistency across the board in their award.  Some people get them for longevity, others for respiration and gravitational attraction.

You sign none you're a hard-butt, you sign one and all the others get their thongs bunched.  You just can't win.

[HGjunkie]

Catch-22 anyone?

[DBlair]

^ That's the problem, some feel that way, others (and the regs) disagree.

Simply doing your job is not, IMHO, enough to warrant a decoration, if it were, they would be automatic as well.

The other issue is the inconsistency across the board in their award.  Some people get them for longevity, others for respiration and gravitational attraction.

You sign none you're a hard-butt, you sign one and all the others get their thongs bunched.  You just can't win.

I believe the solution is to award decorations to those who have performed in an outstanding manner, meanwhile making it clear to others that with sufficient effort, they too could realistically receive such a decoration- and then actually follow through when they do perform accordingly.

[lordmonar]

^ That's the problem, some feel that way, others (and the regs) disagree.

Simply doing your job is not, IMHO, enough to warrant a decoration, if it were, they would be automatic as well.

The other issue is the inconsistency across the board in their award.  Some people get them for longevity, others for respiration and gravitational attraction.

You sign none you're a hard-butt, you sign one and all the others get their thongs bunched.  You just can't win.

I believe the solution is to award decorations to those who have performed in an outstanding manner, meanwhile making it clear to others that with sufficient effort, they too could realistically receive such a decoration- and then actually follow through when they do perform accordingly.

Absolutley.  We set the standard.....and the make [darn] sure that we reward everyone who meets that standard.

The problem is that CAP has doen a poor job of defining the standard in a way the general rank and file can understand..

[flyboy53]

So consider this.

Why is it that more frequently these days, there have been WWII members sought out, promoted to colonel and then presented Distinguished Service Medals? Certainly we want to honor and recognize those (sometimes former) members, but why then do we only present someone with a certificate when they formally retire from CAP?

Certainly we want to recognize those trailblazing (sometimes former) members, but why the lack of recognition to someone who makes a career of the CAP?

World War II membes may soon see a Congressional Gold Medal minted in their honor (and certainly they deserve it for their sacrifice), but the average CAP member will not see any simililar form of recognition during their entire period of service. If NHQ has set a standard for a medal that seems to be awarded frequently for political or public relations purposes, than why shouldn't a DSM be awarded concurrent, automatically, with a retirement certificate?

[BillB]

If the DSM was awarded to a member on retirement when would he ever wear it? Up until a few years ago retired member could wear the CAP uniform for CAP banquets etc. But the disgraced National Commander pushed through a regulation change where retired members could no longer wear the uniform.
I can see presenting the DSM to members upon reaching 50 years of membership, but retirement after only 12 years (or what ever the retirement requirement is currently) doesn't make sense.

[flyboy53]

The current reg says 20 years.

As far as when would that person wear it, he or she would wear it upon retirement, just like in the military.

Why is when would it be worn important? The issue is to present something more tangible and archival than just another certificate. If you've stripped a CAP retiree of all the other honors like wearing a uniform away, does just another certificate seem as a valid form of recognition after the 20-year or so investment of service, of dues or all of the other costs and grief that a CAP member incurs during those two decades or so of service? You may say, well they get an ID card? You don't wear an ID Card, it may be placed in a wallet and may not be replaceable if the membership has lapsed. Thanks, here's another piece of paper...

Of all the certificates my wife and I received during our tours with CAP, the only one that is framed and displayed is a region-level Brewer Award that I received years ago. All the rest, including my own GRW, are in an envelope that sits behind the door in my den. The only tangible purpose they've served was to reconstruct rank and achievements when we both had a break in service.

Retirees get a complete lack of respect in this organization. I know of a retired major who went to a wing conference and got absolutely ridiculed because he wore the old maroon CAP tie with his blazer uniform....it was the uniform combination in effect when he was an active member.

One other thing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I though WWII CAP members were entitled to wear their uniforms during the appropriate national holidays in accordance with the various federal laws that apply to former service members.

[Eclipse]

If the DSM was awarded to a member on retirement when would he ever wear it?

From 39-2
3-1. General.
c. Retired Member.
Once retired, members will not actively participate. Retired individuals may attend wing or region conferences and National Board meetings when the general membership is allowed to attend, i.e., the summer National Board meeting, or when invited by the host commander. Attendance at other meetings, conferences, training sessions, or non-social activities conducted by CAP is not allowed unless the retiree is invited by the wing or region commander of the unit hosting the event. Attendance at social functions is authorized, but requires a formal or specific invitation and prior approval of the commander hosting the event.

Retired individuals will wear the current CAP blazer uniform (with the last grade earned as an active member) or appropriate civilian attire when attending social functions as a guest. Retired individuals will not be listed on Military Support Authorizations. Retired members may reapply for active membership with the approval of the National Commander. While retired, any individual who brings discredit to CAP may be barred from any event by the National Commander.

The semi-formal variant of the blazer allows for the wear of one medal.

With that said, there are lines to draw and lines to not (grammar) - on various occasions I have attended banquets and other formal
activities where retired members wore their historical uniforms and the roof did not cave in.

[tsrup]

Okay....just to throw out a for instance.

Large three wing Encampment:

Everyone on staff gets and acheivement Award.
The Top 10% or so get a Commander's Commendation.
The Commandant/Director gets the Mertorious Sevice Award.

Justification.

The director of the encampment is not a "normal" duty for anyone in CAP.
The Commander's Commendation to the top staff performers...those who truely went above and beyond the actual staff job they were "hired" for.
The Acheivement Award for everyone...because Encampment Staff is a dirty thankless job and we need to honor those who gave up their time and effort for the betterment of CAP.

You raise an interesting point about Encampments. Realistically, it isn't 'normal duty' for anyone to lead/staff an encampment. I wonder how often Encampment Staff are actually recognized with such awards.

It depends,
Two years ago I was a tac and I got an Achievement Award,
Last year I was a Deputy Commandant and none of the senior staff/tac o's got squat.

The cadet staff almost didn't get anything either, had we not done the paperwork ourselves.  It all depends on how well the EC is on the ball.

[Eclipse]

Perfect example of where I'd have an issue, and this has come up in my wing as well.

Achievement Awards should have a Group-level scope.  Encampments are wing-level activities.

Appropriate awards for encampment staffers are Comm Comm's.

[tsrup]

Perfect example of where I'd have an issue, and this has come up in my wing as well.

Achievement Awards should have a Group-level scope.  Encampments are wing-level activities.

Appropriate awards for encampment staffers are Comm Comm's.

And if your wing doesn't have groups?

[Eclipse]

Then there isn't much need for the Achievement award, since the approving authority has a pen for the comm comm.

Even without groups, the scope of the activity could still be similar (i.e. interaction on a level across multiple units, but not on a wing level).

[CAP Producer]

Scalability is the key with awards and decorations.

I have had Achivement Awards approved for PAO's who have staffed my regional PA training events.

Commander's Commendations for PA work at a wing or regional level.

I had an Exceptional Service Award approved for a guy who maintained the IT infrastructure for 4 wings and my regional PA web operations.

And I have seen Achievement Awards and Commadner's Commendations awarded for national level work.

its all about the scope and level of involvement.

And how good the write up is. 

[lordmonar]

Perfect example of where I'd have an issue, and this has come up in my wing as well.

Achievement Awards should have a Group-level scope.  Encampments are wing-level activities.

Appropriate awards for encampment staffers are Comm Comm's.

Disagree.

Both on the scope and the fact that an encampment is a wing level event.

The award should be tied to a scope of responsibility.   Squadron staff or squadron staff like responsibililty (even if it at National HQ) is right for an Acheivment award.  So all your rank and file encampment staff should have the general responsibilities of a squadron staffer.....even if the event is a wing level activity (i.e. it supports the whole wing).  The same would go for NCSA staffers even if that is a National event.

Just because the Group CC is the approving authority for the award....it does not mean that the accomplishments of the individual must also have a direct impact at a group level.

If that were true.....then we would never give out any awards for anyone not on group staff or above.

Just as CAP Producer said....it is about the scope of responsibiliy.....not the "level" of the event that matters.

[MSG Mac]

One factor in the lack of award of the various ribbons is that some units just don't or won't put people in for the awards. as a former Wing DP I would beg for nominees for the several Wing Member of the Year awards. In that wing of about 30 units we would typically get 5 nominations. Same for the ribboned awards. It was always "someone else's responsibility" or a case of  "I don't believe in awards" or "it wouldn't go through if I did write one up"  In this they were right, They didn't write the individuals up so the award never came down. Then Commanders would wonder why they had a retention problem. A good friend said it best when she retired as a LtCol " No one ever said  Thank You"