CAP and JROTC Relationship and costs

[Patterson]

So I read 10 Cadets from Alabama JROTC were participating in CAP's Cadet Officer School.  Is this reciprocal??  Did JROTC pay to send the JROTC Cadets or did the USAF cover their costs.  I would be really upset if the Air Force payed their way there, when I payed for two of my Cadets to go this year!! 

LINK

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/headline_news.cfm/civil_air_patrol_jrotc_cadets_gather_at_maxwell_for_premier_leadership_course?show=news&newsID=8257

[RiverAux]

Thought I saw something about some JROTC activities being opened to CAP cadets as well. 

[Seabee219]

I looked at the O flights for the JROTC cadets and CAP provided money for the flight when it is set up.  Hope I am correct on that.

I would hope that CAP would pay for their own cadets over others.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I looked at the O flights for the JROTC cadets and CAP provided money for the flight when it is set up.  Hope I am correct on that.

I would hope that CAP would pay for their own cadets over others.

CAP gets the money from the AF. The AF supports JROTC, ROTC and CAP...

What's the issue here?

[Ned]

Something like 90% of the cost of COS comes out of Congressionally-appropriated funds.  The activity fee did not even cover the airfare provided to most cadets.

CAP cadets have participated in the JROTC honor camp for several years.

The two organizations have much in common and both benefit from a closer stategic relationship.

They have things that we are envious of - things like paid instructors at every unit, provided classrooms and adminstrative support in each school, and a (comparitively) huge support staff at their national level.

We have things that they are envious of - things like our curriculum materials, volunteer support, the ability to place units in settings other than schools, aircraft support, a wider age range of cadets, and especially our highly developed NCSA program.

Both organizations happen to be headquartered at Maxwell AFB at the Holm Center and talk with each other at the staff level.

We have invited all of the JROTC organizations to the CP Summit that CAP is hosting in San Diego later this year.  As I said, we have much in common and can work together for the benefit of all of our cadets.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Guy

[RADIOMAN015]

Organizationally now at AU,  CAP, Jr ROTC, ROTC, & OTS, all come under the same Division (Holm Center) Commander.  Of course CAP is the only operational (as opposed to just training/education) command of AU. :clap:

Locally, we got a AF JROTC right in the same community, and I've never seen the two retired AF guys who are instructors ever visit us at our squadron.

We have also had a few cadets that were in AFJROTC, and a couple of cadets (no longer active in our squadron) join the senior ROTC program.

Actually it's interesting that JROTC seems to get much  more logistical support .   The cadets there get free dress shoes & combat boots, complete uniforms and all the appropriate insiginias while CAP cadets only get a pair of pants & shirt.   I think it would be better for teenagers with financial limitations to join a junior ROTC unit than it would be to join a CAP unit.
RM

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think it would be better for teenagers with financial limitations to join a junior ROTC unit than it would be to join a CAP unit.
RM

The problem of course is the fact most communities have no access to JROTC, and the schools show little interest in establishing them. Even school that could afford to pay the Ret. Military Instructor.

I find it sad that the college counselor at my High School had to call me when I graduated early (so technically during what would have been my Senior Year), to refer a student interested in cadet programs to me, to talk about CAP.

During my Sophomore/Junior year, I've met with the School Administrators and Principal to discuss JROTC. I even had 20-30 interested students that I talked to (this is a school of 4500 students), which was more than enough to start a unit. The school just kinda ignored/dragged the issue until I graduated...

[Patterson]

Wow Colonel Lee that was quick!

I did not know CAP Cadets participated in the JROTC Camp.  I did not even know there was a CP summit. 

I am pleased to read that nearly 90% of the cost of individual Cadet attendance is from appropriated funds.  So, in reality the actual COS costs are really that high?  Are you feeding them steak and caviar each night?!?!

The question still remains, did CAP pay for the JROTC Cadets to attend this activity?  It does not matter if the funds CAP uses are Congressional Appropriated or not.  Those funds are for CAP CADETS, JROTC is a totally different line item.

My concern as brought up above is paying for JROTC Cadets in various situations, when in reality the AF should be taking the Cash from the JROTC Budget, not CAP.

I only bring this up, because my neighbor has been doing JROTC instruction for three years, and has told me of other organizations (other than CAP) that sponsor JROTC activities, because the Air Force gives JROTC so little money.  I would imagine CAP would have paid for this activity as it was not during the academic year, and the AF only sets aside so much money for summertime JROTC activity.

I would be dissapointed if the activity fee was paid by CAP for these jrotc Cadets.  That would make it seem they are more deserving than our Cadets.  They already get priority on O-Rides in my area, due to the large number of jrotc units in the surrounding school districts.  I also am upset that I have a Cadet who has received the max number of front seat CAP O-Rides, yet has flown three times in the front under the JROTC program.  Not fair to other Cadets in my unit, and something that needs to be addressed by USAF and CAP.       

[Eclipse]

They already get priority on O-Rides in my area, due to the large number of jrotc units in the surrounding school districts.  I also am upset that I have a Cadet who has received the max number of front seat CAP O-Rides, yet has flown three times in the front under the JROTC program.  Not fair to other Cadets in my unit, and something that needs to be addressed by USAF and CAP.

The JROTC pays for their own rides, so they can fly all they want, if your cadets want more front seat rides, they have to pay as well.

What you have is local JROTC leaders, who have chosen to spend more money than local CAP units or your cadets.

CAP is not paying for the JROTC rides.

[EMT-83]

We fly the JROTC cadets from our local high school. I think they were able to come up with enough money to fly a total 3 hours for the entire year. The grass isn't always greener...

[Eclipse]

We fly the JROTC cadets from our local high school. I think they were able to come up with enough money to fly a total 3 hours for the entire year. The grass isn't always greener...

It might be "interesting" to know where the funding is coming from - wouldn't be the first time someone misunderstood the program. 
If it turned out the Wing was paying for JROTC rides, then you'd have every right to be bent.

My wing does not currently fly them at all.

[RiverAux]

I doubt there are many Wings out there that would accidentally use CAP money to fly JROTC cadets.

[EMT-83]

Definitely not coming from Wing. JROTC tells us how much they have to spend, and we figure out the hours. Glad I'm not the guy who has to pick the cadets.

[jimmydeanno]

CAP had 9 AFJROTC cadets at COS that just ended a few hours ago. 

JROTC pays for their cadets to go to their camps, etc.  CAP opened up some slots and told JROTC that the activity fee was ~$650, or the actual unsubsidized cost of a cadet to attend.  Their cadets did not pay anything, their program paid for them to come at no charge.  There is no conspiracy or crazy program that is taking CAP cadet funding away from our cadets.

The 9 that attended represented their program with honor.  In fact, the JROTC cadet that I had in my seminar was one of the contenders for top performer.

[Eclipse]

Next question - why does COS cost $650?

[jimmydeanno]

Next question - why does COS cost $650?

Billeting is ~$35 a night (~$350/cadet).  They get a "per diem" per say.  Throughout the week the cadets are given allotments of money to cover their meals, etc.  They are provided with educational materials, a graduation dinner, t-shirts to identify which flight they're in, administrative expenses for the school, etc.

[Eclipse]

OK - so why are we paying for billeting?

I'm not trying to be a smartypants, I'm really curious.  COS is just another week-long classroom situation, yet it costs nearly as much as some flight academies.

[JayT]

I'm curious how they chose the cadets to attend. AFJROTC is really and truly a locally based thing. We had no relationship at all with local units when I was a JROTC cadet, with the exception of a conference or two per year. If you have ten CAP C/Lt. Col's,  you know what you're getting, at least to the minimal nationally published standards. Take ten AFJROTC C/Lt. Col's from five units, and you have no idea what you're getting.

[Ned]

OK - so why are we paying for billeting?

Because they AF does not give it to us for free at either Maxwell or Gunter.  They charge us the standard rates they charge everyone, including themselves.

COS is just another week-long classroom situation, yet it costs nearly as much as some flight academies.

Non-concur.

COS needs to be at Maxwell/Gunter because it enjoys incredible support from the Air University faculty.  COS cadets are not getting instruction from CAP seniors, but the same PhDs and other distinguished faculty that instruct in the War College, ACSC, and SOS. 

Using the same materials and facilities used to train AF officers, including some rather specialized facilities.

IIRC, the largest single budget item for COS is the airfare for the over 100 cadets attending.  As anyone who has been to NHQ can attest, airfare into the Montgomery airport is typical of airfaires into smaller, regional airports.  Which is to say fairly expensive.

Reasonable minds will always disagree on specfic aspects of budgets for activities.  May I suggest that you contact either Mr. LaFond or the volunteer CAP Activity Director, Maj Mike Foster for specific budgetary questions?

[Patterson]

^ Ok.  All reasonable items.  Thank you for the explanation.

All I was going on was the NCSA website and the documents for COS.

COS is a great program!  I recommend it to all of my Cadets.  In fact each year, I send two Cadets there.  Perhaps because Wing knows I will only send the best, they have never denied anyone I have sent for an interview in 6 years.  Now if we can get our Region Cadet Leadership Schools to be like COS....that would be great.  Too many Wings conduct a CLS as though it were "Encampment Phase 2", and I am just so displeased to see that!!  There is no reason to conduct the same training at CLS that was conducted at Encampment.