Arkansas Flash Flood

[PHall]

Is CAP involved with this? Seems like the prefect mission for the Archer System.

[cap235629]

No, the closest Archer is in Texas.

[RADIOMAN015]

Is CAP involved with this? Seems like the prefect mission for the Archer System.

Hmm I can remember at last year's region SAREX competition, the expert staff stated they weren't taking the system out because it was cloudy and the system didn't work (well?).  So I guess when the sun comes out they could use it.

Seems to me that helicopters are the way to go at that scene due to the deep valleys along the rivers banks.

You would have thought that the National Forest Service would have had some means of alerting those at least in the campground of potential flooding.

Also from an emergency comm prespective a simple Family Radio Service FRS 1/2 watt portable(s) ($10.00 a piece), on FRS channel 1 (462.5625 mhz, no pl/dpl), could be a simple method of calling out for help to airborne resources (include a CAP hasty fly over) to pinpoint where helicopters & ground rescue teams need to go. 

There's basically no cellphone coverage in the area but they are trucking in portable cell sites for just in case emergency comms.    Additionally CAP with appropriate all band public radio communications capabilities (perhaps on the GA 8 or even a few of our C182's, C172's , add a few antennas), could give CAP the mission of radio relay, high above the scene.

It's extremely doubtful that the average camper, recreational hiker, fisherman/woman, hunter, aren't going to go out and buy a $500.00 PLB for "just in case" situations.  However, it is likley that a simple $10.00 FRS radio would be useful for comms among them as well as emergency comms to search aircraft if it became necessary using the amateur radio wilderness comm portocol, or when they hear a low flying aircraft.

Perhaps again CAP needs to look at advocating as well practicing with simple comm devices that the general public would more likely use (or could be informed to use).

RM   

[cap235629]

I work this area of Arkansas.  Flying the river by CAP would be beneficial.  This part of the State is NOT deep valleys but more rolling hills.  What it boils down to is the Sheriff making the call.  The National Guard has had helicopter on scene but the cost is huge.  This is a VERY rural county.  The Sheriff has been there for 40 years.  Yes I said 40.  This is an election year and he actually has this on his signs. 

This is where we train.  This is our backyard.  RM please don't back seat drive this one.  IF the Sheriff calls, we will be there. 

In Arkansas the Sheriff is basically the king of the County.  What he wants to happen is the only thing that will happen.  Even though most of this area is in a National Forest, the Sheriff still calls the shots.

[CommGeek]

Archer?  you mean that hunk of garbage we tote around in the g8?

[wingnut55]

Com geek did you flunk out of the Archer school?

[CommGeek]

I may have.  Archer dosent work.   Why do you think CAP is going to scrap the program?  Its a waste of time and money.  Would have been better off buying FLIR pods instead...

[Jerry Jacobs]

I may have.  Archer dosent work.   Why do you think CAP is going to scrap the program?  Its a waste of time and money.  Would have been better off buying FLIR pods instead...

Care to expand on your thoughts?

[Short Field]

I worked similar systems in the military and got magical results compared to regular imagery.  The key is trained operators/image interpreters.  I heard somewhere that each flight hour needs about four hours on the ground to process (review) the imagery.  You are not going to get results while in the air... 

[blackrain]

Is CAP involved with this? Seems like the prefect mission for the Archer System.

Hmm I can remember at last year's region SAREX competition, the expert staff stated they weren't taking the system out because it was cloudy and the system didn't work (well?).  So I guess when the sun comes out they could use it.

Seems to me that helicopters are the way to go at that scene due to the deep valleys along the rivers banks.

You would have thought that the National Forest Service would have had some means of alerting those at least in the campground of potential flooding.

Also from an emergency comm prespective a simple Family Radio Service FRS 1/2 watt portable(s) ($10.00 a piece), on FRS channel 1 (462.5625 mhz, no pl/dpl), could be a simple method of calling out for help to airborne resources (include a CAP hasty fly over) to pinpoint where helicopters & ground rescue teams need to go. 

There's basically no cellphone coverage in the area but they are trucking in portable cell sites for just in case emergency comms.    Additionally CAP with appropriate all band public radio communications capabilities (perhaps on the GA 8 or even a few of our C182's, C172's , add a few antennas), could give CAP the mission of radio relay, high above the scene.

It's extremely doubtful that the average camper, recreational hiker, fisherman/woman, hunter, aren't going to go out and buy a $500.00 PLB for "just in case" situations.  However, it is likley that a simple $10.00 FRS radio would be useful for comms among them as well as emergency comms to search aircraft if it became necessary using the amateur radio wilderness comm portocol, or when they hear a low flying aircraft.

Perhaps again CAP needs to look at advocating as well practicing with simple comm devices that the general public would more likely use (or could be informed to use).

RM

There you go confusing the issue with logic

I heard the idea about FRS batted around for a long time but never heard anything more. I would add Marine radio capability as well. While it may be rarely used outside of coastal regions I think CAP aircraft should be capable on any frequencies likely to be used by people in distress. (You just never know when a particular aircraft will be in a particular place and Murphy always gets a vote) DF capabilities on those frequencies would be icing on the cake. That said with proper antenna placement wing null could offer some capability.

[DakRadz]

Why not ground teams? There's only one person missing, and judging by the volunteers I saw on television, looks like our trained ground teams would be good for this job.
Okay, so there isn't an aircraft. But still. GT would be prepared, knows how to search.

YMMV

[RADIOMAN015]

I work this area of Arkansas.  Flying the river by CAP would be beneficial.  This part of the State is NOT deep valleys but more rolling hills.  What it boils down to is the Sheriff making the call.  The National Guard has had helicopter on scene but the cost is huge.  This is a VERY rural county.  The Sheriff has been there for 40 years.  Yes I said 40.  This is an election year and he actually has this on his signs. 

This is where we train.  This is our backyard.  RM please don't back seat drive this one.  IF the Sheriff calls, we will be there. 

In Arkansas the Sheriff is basically the king of the County.  What he wants to happen is the only thing that will happen.  Even though most of this area is in a National Forest, the Sheriff still calls the shots.

So has THAT PARTICULAR SHERIFF EVER asked for CAP's help in the past?

Still looks to me like helicopters are the way to go, not any fixed wing aircraft.

Perhaps CAP'ers could help the Red Cross at base camp by handing out water, food, etc.   It isn't what you play & train for but would still be very helpful
RM

[cap235629]

The last known missing person was found at 10:15 AM

[Nick P.]

Does CAP not assist in Floods? I know we do SAR but doesnt that include Floods?

[arajca]

SAR does not include floods, but Emergency Services, which includes SAR, DR, HLS, and a host of other sins things, does.

Yes, CAP does help at floods WHEN CALLED.

[RiverAux]

Is CAP involved with this? Seems like the prefect mission for the Archer System.

Why would this be the perfect mission for Archer?  I don't see the connection.

[PHall]

Is CAP involved with this? Seems like the prefect mission for the Archer System.

Why would this be the perfect mission for Archer?  I don't see the connection.

Finding bodies mixed in the the brush. This is "supposedly" one of the things the system supposed to do very well.

[RiverAux]

I've never heard that.  Given that the bodies would be wearing all sorts of different types and colors of clothing I don't see how ARCHER could identify anything as human.  Is the resolution even good enough to pick up something as small as an individual human body, as opposed to something the size of a crashed airplane?

[Al Sayre]

I don't think its a matter of pickin out "body" as much as "something that doesn't match the surroundings". From what I've seen, yes the resolution is that good (depending on altitude, lighting, etc.).

[RiverAux]

After a flood like this, the whole area is going to looked mixed up and out of place and nothing will match the surroundings.