The Golden Pip

[Eclipse]

I think this organization has more power than it would like to admit.

If the senior members were to e-mail eachother and get a petition or something together adn send it to NHQ they would have to listen wouldnt they?  Then send that same petition to Vanguard and threaten to leave them after their contract expires... I bet they wouldnt like that much.

Which organization?  CAP Talk?

For starters do the math.  As of this message there are 2742 registered members of CAP Talk, about 1/2 of which have never posted at all, and 2/3+ who post so infrequently as to be in the first 1/2.

Next, not everyone shares the opinion about Vanguard, and of those who may share the frustration many understand this is a complex issue
without an inexpensive or easy solution.  Whomever picks up the contract needs to be an established, stable manufacturer of similar products - not some PAC-Rim fly-by-night.

So let's grant that 1/4 of the CT membership feels strongly enough about it to write an email?   That would account for about 1.% of the total CAP membership - hardly a blip, and nothing NHQ hasn't already heard through the chain.

oooops!  Another wrinkle - not all CT members are CAP members! Which means their opinion about something like this carries about zero weight.

[KioGoten]

Wow... didnt know you felt so strongly about the subject let alone how to do the math... I am impressed 

I didnt mean that everyone here on CAPTalk should do this, I am just saying that there should be something that could go out to the squadrons about this.  Just like any petition, you dont have to be apart of it if you dont want to.

But just to kill this convo, I was just asking people's opinion to see if something like this (If ever possible to send out a letter regarding this to all squadrons nation wide) if it could change anything.

...didnt mean I was going to do it... I dont have the time.. so high prices via Vanguard here I come!! lol

[MIKE]

Mind the drift. 

[wacapgh]

We aren't bringing back the WO or FO, just substituting the golden pip for the silver pip as the grade insignia for C/2nd Lt.

Unfortunately that would shift wearing the grades to this:

1 Gold Pip = C/2Lt
1 Silver Pip = C/1Lt
2 Silver Pips = C/Captain
3 Silver Pips = C/Major
1 Silver Diamond = C/ Lt. Colonel
2 Silver Diamonds = C/ Colonel

Unless we create some bizarre version of "C/2Lt (Lower Half)"

Official "Olde Fart" - C/WO, 1977

[KioGoten]

Well I was thinking something like this:

1 Golden Pip = C/2LT
2 Silver Pip = C/1LT
3 Silver Pip = C/ Captain
and so on.

Dont change the rest of them, just the 2LT to the golden pip.  That would be accurate... right? lol

[davidsinn]

Well I was thinking something like this:

1 Golden Pip = C/2LT
2 Silver Pip = C/1LT
3 Silver Pip = C/ Captain
and so on.

Dont change the rest of them, just the 2LT to the golden pip.  That would be accurate... right? lol

You'd need a gold diamond then...

[KioGoten]

That would actually be cool.
If they had a Golden Pip and Diamond that would make identifying rank so much easier and realistic to the actual officer ranks huh?

What do you guys think?

[SarDragon]

It ain't broke, so why invent a fix. Put your golden pip in a shadow box and reminisce about it with your friends over a brew or two.

[High Speed Low Drag]

That would actually be cool.
If they had a Golden Pip and Diamond that would make identifying rank so much easier and realistic to the actual officer ranks huh?

What do you guys think?

That would be pretty cool.  I like the idea.  And it is not that big of a chnage to create a challenge.  Supply sources already exist.

[JC004]

It ain't broke, so why invent a fix.
...

Clearly you are not qualified to serve on our National Board.

[Hawk200]

It ain't broke, so why invent a fix. Put your golden pip in a shadow box and reminisce about it with your friends over a brew or two.

Second. No reason to realign stuff just so it's cool.

[KioGoten]

Awww you guys are not fun    lol

Well it would be a cool idea but your right its already there.

... then again... we already changed the ranks thus eliminating a few ranks and adding more... so TECHNICALLY it could work mwahahaha... ok I am done lol

[JC004]

It ain't broke, so why invent a fix. Put your golden pip in a shadow box and reminisce about it with your friends over a brew or two.

Second. No reason to realign stuff just so it's cool.

Man...clearly you are not qualified to be on the National Board either...

[High Speed Low Drag]

Guys - we were just saying how cool something might be --- not advocating the NB convene an emergency meeting and change it right now.   Lighten up.

[SarDragon]

Well, as much as I like my olde gold pip, I don't think the ideas that were presented proposing the return of its use are kool. Not at all.

YMMV.

[LTC Don]

Former c/Warrant Officer here (1983). 

I actually would support a re-alignment of the silver c/2Lt and c/Maj insignia to gold.  That would put it into proper color scheme with the USAF and CAP 2Lt and Major grades.  Otherwise, why bother with re-aligning/expanding the cadet enlisted/NCO grades, but then have heartburn over moving the cadet officer grades into the same compliance?

Cheers,

[davidsinn]

Former c/Warrant Officer here (1983). 

I actually would support a re-alignment of the silver c/2Lt and c/Maj insignia to gold.  That would put it into proper color scheme with the USAF and CAP 2Lt and Major grades.  Otherwise, why bother with re-aligning/expanding the cadet enlisted/NCO grades, but then have heartburn over moving the cadet officer grades into the same compliance?

Cheers,

The only reason the military has gold and silver insignia is because they use the same shape for two different grades. Each and every cadet grade has a unique shape. Besides incurring a measurable cost to cadet units and padding Vanguard's pocket what exactly does this fix?

[Hawk200]

Former c/Warrant Officer here (1983). 

I actually would support a re-alignment of the silver c/2Lt and c/Maj insignia to gold.  That would put it into proper color scheme with the USAF and CAP 2Lt and Major grades.  Otherwise, why bother with re-aligning/expanding the cadet enlisted/NCO grades, but then have heartburn over moving the cadet officer grades into the same compliance?

Cheers,

What compliance would that be? Cadet stripes go up to Cheif now. They didn't before. There was a little restructuring to eliminate the warrant officer, because it didn't mirror current Air Force officer rank structure.

What gain is realized by changing the colors on a few pips? One is 2LT, two is 1LT, three is CPT, and so on. Changing the colors throws things out of whack. And CAP has never used a gold diamond, so there's no precedence with us.

This is a non-solution looking for a home.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Former c/Warrant Officer here (1983). 

I actually would support a re-alignment of the silver c/2Lt and c/Maj insignia to gold.  That would put it into proper color scheme with the USAF and CAP 2Lt and Major grades.  Otherwise, why bother with re-aligning/expanding the cadet enlisted/NCO grades, but then have heartburn over moving the cadet officer grades into the same compliance?

Cheers,

What compliance would that be? Cadet stripes go up to Cheif now. They didn't before. There was a little restructuring to eliminate the warrant officer, because it didn't mirror current Air Force officer rank structure.

What gain is realized by changing the colors on a few pips? One is 2LT, two is 1LT, three is CPT, and so on. Changing the colors throws things out of whack. And CAP has never used a gold diamond, so there's no precedence with us.

This is a non-solution looking for a home.

It doesn't "fix" anything.  Some of us just thought it would be cool.  If yo don't like it, fine.  Do we expect it to happen - no.  Just an whimisical opinion that was posted on this thread about an item that a few of us wore at one time. 

[KioGoten]

Former c/Warrant Officer here (1983). 

I actually would support a re-alignment of the silver c/2Lt and c/Maj insignia to gold.  That would put it into proper color scheme with the USAF and CAP 2Lt and Major grades.  Otherwise, why bother with re-aligning/expanding the cadet enlisted/NCO grades, but then have heartburn over moving the cadet officer grades into the same compliance?

Cheers,

What compliance would that be? Cadet stripes go up to Cheif now. They didn't before. There was a little restructuring to eliminate the warrant officer, because it didn't mirror current Air Force officer rank structure.

What gain is realized by changing the colors on a few pips? One is 2LT, two is 1LT, three is CPT, and so on. Changing the colors throws things out of whack. And CAP has never used a gold diamond, so there's no precedence with us.

This is a non-solution looking for a home.

It doesn't "fix" anything.  Some of us just thought it would be cool.  If yo don't like it, fine.  Do we expect it to happen - no.  Just an whimisical opinion that was posted on this thread about an item that a few of us wore at one time.

Thank you thank you thank you.

I think some of you guys get way into this sometimes.  RELAX it is just a discussion.  We arent going to knock on HQ's door and demand that they change things.

Benefits of changing the cadet 2LT and Major ranks from silver to gold...
1) It would mimic the actual AF 2LT butter bar and the Major golden leaf.  These ranks are different colors YES because they have same shaped counter parts but if you go into military history it is not because they are the same shape, they could be different shapes all together, that is not the point.  The reason is to show that YES you have an officer here 2LT but he is very much a JUNIOR officer and it shows via the color.  The MAJ rank is the same way because once you go from Captain to Major you go from Junior Command to Senior.  BUT the color still reminds you that your new to switching to a higher responsibility you are NEW to higher command structure.

2) For those cadets who are going into the military, they can recognize the different between a 2LT and a 1LT when they have to salute and when they dont have to.  Looking for the color is crutial sometimes.  Me as a 2LT in the Guard, if its golden bar I dont salute and I am glad but if its silver (black subdued) you whip it out and salute


Bad reasons to change it

1) $$$$$$$$... enough said

2) People are set in their wways and dont want to change it.

3) It wouldnt get approved. but its a cool idea 


So just to restate what I was saying... guys relax this isnt going to get approved nor do we want to, just saying it would be cool to mimic the real thing w/ the cadets