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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: The Beginnings of a Style Guide
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Author Topic: The Beginnings of a Style Guide  (Read 23290 times)
Spaceman3750
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2010, 07:19:14 PM »

The web domain/server/hosting issue is a whole lot more involved. There's cites of "we can't do it and comply with whatever it is to be a .gov TLD" or anemic IT staff makes you just say screw it and get your own hosting, and of course, you can't get DNS changed because then you have to deal with potentially similar attitudes at that point, etc. Thats a whole 'nother thread.

Right now, I've got the same problem. After waiting nearly 5 years for PHP/MySQL, I'm going to just use something else and combine both what we get from Wing with a commercial provider. Every time I offer to help, it falls on deaf ears. They put out another PA appointing someone to assist, help, whatever, nothing ever happens. Life goes on. Even Geocities was more flexible in some ways.

Yeah, I figured that's how it was. The problem is, it's not horribly expensive for the IT folks to add PHP/MySQL support to servers running squadron/wing websites. Even if you look at it from a security perspective, those risks can be mitigated.

By the way, when did gocivilairpatrol.com spring up? WIWAC we were using cap.gov and when I came back it pointed to that. It just doesn't make sense to me, we don't need to be mimicking armed forces recruiting because we aren't the armed forces and 99% of recruiting is done at the local level.
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JC004
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2010, 07:34:21 PM »

I think we should start with what Ma Blue has here: http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5187

From there, do the following:

1) Add the B&W seal with white stars to the mix, as it most closely resembles the color version.

2) Forbid the creation of any other logo using the Hap Arnold wings, and reserve the one on that page for CAP-USAF use only.  Those wings are a trademarked property of the USAF, and we have no business using them as long as CAP maintains any corporate identity apart from the Air Force.

3) Add the roundell, and restrict its usage to aircraft only.

4) Determine the pantone colors and RGB equivalents for each logo so that they can be reproduced accurately on all publications, web documents, decals, etc.

5) Ruthlessly eliminate the usage of any other logos besides approved unit and activity logos.  Facilitate this by creating an official letterhead in both MS Word and PDF formats, with elements spaced according to CAPR 10-1.  The MS Word format should be a template, with a predefined location for adding a unit or activity logo to the right of the address.

That would be a good start. ;D

Good start.  I am actually not opposed to doing away with usage of the Air Force symbol.  I am very, very-pro Air Force/CAP closeness, but that thing is annoying and probably unnecessary.  It also takes up A LOT of space with a cradled logo.  I am concerned about so many sub-logos (any logos that violate the flag code AND CAPR 900-2 - hint to NOC - should probably go first).  We should look at that later.  Templates are exactly part of my plan.  I can do DOC, PDF, whatever - letterhead, envelopes, business cards, etc.  BTDT. 

I may be just a voice in the woods at my location...perhaps several letters from members nationwide would clue in NHQ.

Or get us all kicked out.

We must build our numbers, create our plan, and tell them to make it so. 

The web domain/server/hosting issue is a whole lot more involved. There's cites of "we can't do it and comply with whatever it is to be a .gov TLD" or anemic IT staff makes you just say screw it and get your own hosting, and of course, you can't get DNS changed because then you have to deal with potentially similar attitudes at that point, etc. Thats a whole 'nother thread.

Right now, I've got the same problem. After waiting nearly 5 years for PHP/MySQL, I'm going to just use something else and combine both what we get from Wing with a commercial provider. Every time I offer to help, it falls on deaf ears. They put out another PA appointing someone to assist, help, whatever, nothing ever happens. Life goes on. Even Geocities was more flexible in some ways.

We have to look at this for sure. 

...
+1

Have to agree with pretty much everything there. Unfortunately it all makes sense, so it'll never be done.

We can take 'em!

...
By the way, when did gocivilairpatrol.com spring up? WIWAC we were using cap.gov and when I came back it pointed to that. It just doesn't make sense to me, we don't need to be mimicking armed forces recruiting because we aren't the armed forces and 99% of recruiting is done at the local level.

CAP found out about domain registrations and started buying whatever they could think of.  There are A LOT now.  Too many.  This will end.  We will see to it.
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WheelsUp
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2010, 07:43:02 PM »


We must build our numbers, create our plan, and tell them to make it so. 

Sounds like Dr. Klahn in Kentucky Fried Movie: "We are building and army of extraordinary magnitude..."

(For those of you who've never seen KFM, go rent it somewhere or get it from Netflix. It is truly a classic)

But in all seriousness, I've got a half a mind to see what NHQ plans on doing logo/web-wise.

I'll hit them up on uniform issues at another time, perhaps after a few belts of a good drink.
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JC004
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2010, 07:50:53 PM »

Pretty much.  Wait until you see the lasers that I ordered for this.

Haven't you SEEN their plan?!  Make new logos, throw them out there, buy new domain names, use them inconsistently. 
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JC004
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2010, 03:31:27 AM »

Umm...wow.  So I've been hearing from a lot of people on the thread here, by PM, and such.  I knew there were a number of us who were really on this issue, but I didn't realize that there were so many. 

I appreciate the fun/humor people are having with it as well, especially The Triangle Thingy.    ;)  I'm glad we can have some fun with it.  In all seriousness, we need to address this issue.  CAP is one of the biggest (maybe the biggest) organization that I know of personally with such an identity crisis. 

The format of the forum makes it somewhat difficult to do some of this stuff here, so I think people should discuss it, as well as discuss/work on it off the forum.  My plan is to work on some drafts with the people who have expressed interest (and others who may express interest later), then post stuff here as it gets rolling.  People can and certainly should contribute ideas as it goes.  I'd like to see a full style guide proposal that addresses all that we've mentioned here and we need your help getting National Board members behind it.

I'll leave you with this photo that I took in Florida last year:

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Major Carrales
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« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2010, 03:58:58 AM »

The "triangle thing" is deeply rooted in CAP's history, from our origins in the Office of Civil Defense during World War 2.

Eliminating it strikes me as throwing our heritage out the window.

Defining & limiting its use seems more reasonable. Perhaps it should be used only within CAP, not in public relations or recruiting type venues.

I disagree on one point here.  the White triangle...to represent CAP traditions...must be within a blue circle or in the MAJCOM type shield.

Civil Defense was the letters "CD" with in a white triangle surrounded by/within a blue circle.  Much like our overseas patch and the center of the CAP roundel.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 04:02:08 AM by Major Carrales » Report to moderator   Logged
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JC004
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« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2010, 04:03:07 AM »

Hi, Joe.  I feel like maybe that was just a result of not being totally clear which triangle thing that I meant.  (I could be wrong, though)
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2010, 04:07:29 AM »

Hi, Joe.  I feel like maybe that was just a result of not being totally clear which triangle thing that I meant.  (I could be wrong, though)

The device you are truely referring to (the one you have "slashed out" in your signature) has no origin in any CAP history I am familiar with.  I suspect, and this is speculation, that some one made it up for the magazine and then, like so many times happens in our resource depirved units, people picked it up and ran with it.

Has there been any discussion at any of the governing bodies regarding it?  Or was it an editorial descision by the "CAP VOLUNTEER?"

That makes a world of difference.
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2010, 04:33:23 AM »

For what it's worth, there IS a style guide being formulated, and it takes 900-2 and the Institute of Heraldry color palette into account, but that's all I can say right now. Stay tuned....
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a2capt
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2010, 04:38:22 AM »

I hope the Triangle People are not involved in it.. ;-)

Triangle man beats person man.. they have a fight, triangle wins ...

Say it isn't so!!
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2010, 04:40:44 AM »

I hope the Triangle People are not involved in it.. ;-)

Triangle man beats person man.. they have a fight, triangle wins ...

Say it isn't so!!

Why did Constantinople get the works?
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CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2010, 04:52:27 AM »

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks'

But maybe they can relay a message for us ..   Triangle wins no more.
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« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2010, 04:56:39 AM »

For what it's worth, there IS a style guide being formulated, and it takes 900-2 and the Institute of Heraldry color palette into account, but that's all I can say right now. Stay tuned....

This is classified?
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2010, 03:02:04 PM »

Classified secret squirrel stuff most likely...



I wish some wing somewhere would put out a 39-1 supplement authorizing that patch >:D. Just kidding.
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JC004
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« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2010, 03:03:24 PM »

Secret is good.  That way, we can have a slogan like "TRANSFORMERS! More Than Meets the Eyes Skies!"
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »

I personally liked "Eyes of the Home Skies." That's memorable. So's "Flying Minutemen." Whatever it is, if we change it, it needs to fit on a bumpersticker, be action-oriented, forward-thinking, and not be a mouthful.

And I'd add that it can't be something that only certain words are highlighted in -- you read the whole thing at a glance, or you don't read any of it.
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JC004
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« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2010, 07:06:13 PM »

I don't mind the new one, other than being long.  TRANSFORMERS, I minded.  Along with everyone else.  That went away REAL quick after it hit here.   :)

I'm not sure that the style guide HAS to have the slogan.  Just AT LEAST how the spacing and all is done of it around logos.  The slogan can be part of the comprehensive marketing strategy document that's available for download here...err...err...Alright, we'll get to that.  We got this!   ;)
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2010, 07:10:10 PM »

Color and type specs, too, though that won't be too hard -- they're all in the Institute of Heraldry palette.
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« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2010, 07:13:28 PM »

Of course.  I had that in the first part.  I figured logos, colors, and typeface were a good place to start, then move in on details. 

What I'm starting to wonder about is the emblem vs. the command patch...I've been giving that some thought...dunno... ???
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« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2010, 07:52:07 PM »

All seals, crests, etc. must conform to Air Force Heraldry standards:

One seal for correspondence:
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/ggallery/webgraphic/AFG-080407-024.jpg

One insignia for vehicles and aircraft doors:
http://hiwg.cap.gov/kauai/SqdrnMedia/CAPAF_TR.gif

Keep the three-blade prop for the aircraft roundel:
http://www.military-graphics.com/CAP-ROUNDEL.png

One style for Group/Wing crests:
http://www.pawingcap.com/gp1/images/gp1logo.png

One style for Squadron crests (from what I know, all are being redesigned to conform to this circle/two rockers format):
http://scwg.cap.gov/sumter/images/Sumter%20Composite%20Squadron%20Patch.gif

Return this MAJCOM crest! If our Seal says that we are the USAF Auxiliary, the Command crest should too:
http://www.loraincountycap.org/Images/Cap%20Logo.jpg

Adopt this for CAP-wide use, not just for overseas units:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/CAP_Overseas.jpg

I would like to see this approved for us, but it ain't happenin':
http://www.ner.cap.gov/images/graphics/Cap-Usaf_Logo.Gif

This would go a long way toward uniformity and the K.I.S.S. method (no, I'm not talking about Gene Simmons).
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