CAP Uniform Regulation Working Group Change Suggestions

[billford1]

I've worn the BBDU for a while now and they look good when they're new.  When they are laundered they become faded and tattered before long.  I've had better luck with dry cleaning with the Dryel kit I get at Walmart. The Propper brand works well. There's a midnight blue BDU I saw a Cadet Officer wearing and that one looked pretty good. He told me he got it at a Police Supply store.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The Ike jacket was the pinnacle of the US forces. There has been no better looking or more functional uniform ever so far as dress goes.

[Custer]

OK, folks what changes would you recommend to the uniform working group?

Here's my suggestions

1.  Transition both cadets & senior members out of BDU's/green flight suits to the Blue BDU's and Blue flight type suits  -- Reason consistent appearance at field operations, better diferentiation when working with police organization that have swat team that wear BDU's.

2.  Aviator Shirt Uniform  -- Change the pants from grey to black and specify the specific color code that has to be met  -- Reason difficult now for members to get proper matching grey pants, numerous pictures released show signficiant difference in pants colors.

3.  CAP TShirt with Emblem (Blue color) -- Develop a CAP TShirt with current emblem and allow wear with blue BDU pants  --   Reason during summer heat would be more comfortable for wear than current BBDU shirts.

4.  Allow cadet members to wear current Golf Shirts combinations (with black color pants replacement) --- Reason, consistency when visiting quasi military locations such as air museums.

5. CAP Command Patch & Pluto The Dog Patch on Orange or Lime Green Outer Vests.   Allow these patches to be place on the front chest areas of the vest (right & left)  --- Reason, better differentiates ground teams as being associated with Civil Air Patrol.

6.  Tigthen up the weight & appearance standards for wearing the AF type uniforms  --  Reason, members should meet the military standards, and also commander's need to pay specific attention to hair & mustaches.

That's all I can think of for now.  :angel:     

RM   

1.  No.  Blue BDU's and Flight Suits are too expensive.  Sage green flight suits are readily available at low cost, and so are woodland BDU's. 

2.  No.  Black pants with a white aviator shirt will look like a cross between an airline pilot and a naval officer.  Standardize a shade of gray uniform pants, with gray cargo pants for use with the golf shirt.

3.  No.  Standardize color, OK.  Units should be free to use local unit insignia for morale reasons.  Taking shirts off in the field is a BAD idea.  Increasing skin exposure to the sun increases heat retention, and leaves the member open to bug bites, scratches from foliage, etc.

4.  No.  Cadets are here for training, and part of that training is consistent proper uniform wear.  Plus, why make cadet membership more costly?

5.  No, but a weak "No."  OK to standardize vests, but lets not garbage them up with a lot of insignia.  Go with one or the other.

6.  Adopt AF standards on height/weight?  OK, but...  Understand that this will involve a body fat determination (I meet the AF body fat standard, but I am overweight on the CAP's weight-only standard); and develop body fat standards for members past 50.  I'm not sure how much longer I can hold out on my BF status.

I was going to answer the original post, but my answers would have been almost the same as this.  The only difference would have been a suggestion that we dump Grey in favor of Khaki.  Its a far more commonly found color, doesn't vary a lot in shade, and tends to be cheap.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Khaki... Ok, we could look like navy... no thanx

[tsrup]

Khaki... Ok, we could look like navy... no thanx

Khaki with a blue polo or a white aviator shirt? 


I don't know of any Navy uniforms that use that combination...

[manfredvonrichthofen]

White shirt, Navy does have one, well I'm not sure if they still do but they used to.
Why would we have only a polo shirt. That is taking a large part of Civil Air Patrol away. Where would people display their awards? That is just not an option, to me atleast.

[tsrup]

White shirt, Navy does have one, well I'm not sure if they still do but they used to.
Why would we have only a polo shirt. That is taking a large part of Civil Air Patrol away. Where would people display their awards? That is just not an option, to me atleast.

Yes the navy has a white shirt, but not one they wear with khakis.  And currently the white aviator shirt and the blue polo are the only thing we wear with the grey slacks.  So the proposal for khakis would include, yes, the blue polo.

And the white aviator shirt does not allow for display of awards either. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Exactly, why would we not allow awards. That is part of showing each other where we are in the program, where we have been, and what we do. Why would that ever be taken away. Thank God they wouldn't actually do it.

Thank you TSRUP I thought there was but wasn't sure, but I have to say, it sounds like a Navy uniform to me.

[vento]

CAP ribbons are allowed in the white shirt, just not military ribbons.

[Eclipse]

Exactly, why would we not allow awards. That is part of showing each other where we are in the program, where we have been, and what we do. Why would that ever be taken away. Thank God they wouldn't actually do it.

The current plan to retire the CSU in 2012 with no replacement does exactly that.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The current plan to retire the CSU in 2012 with no replacement does exactly that.
[/quote]

You mean the Corporate uniform, get rid of it and keep the USAF style correct?

[Eclipse]

The current plan to retire the CSU in 2012 with no replacement does exactly that.

You mean the Corporate uniform, get rid of it and keep the USAF style correct?
[/quote]

Exactly, why would we not allow awards. That is part of showing each other where we are in the program, where we have been, and what we do. Why would that ever be taken away. Thank God they wouldn't actually do it.

As it stands today, the CSU is the only formal uniform option open to many members which allows for the wear of ribbons, badges, etc., in an equal way with their counterparts who wear the USAF-Style service dress.

The current plan to retire that combo in Jan 2012 leaves only the blazer as the formal option, which does not allow for the wear of grade, badges, or ribbons (beyond the nameplate).

So when you suggest that losing the USAF-style would be detrimental to those who wear it because they could no longer show off their plumage, consider this is already an issue on the table for many members.  Goose and gander should be treated equal in a volunteer environment.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

A volunteer environment yes, but one that as is stated in even the level one training for SMs one that is based on the USAF and its award and grade and rank structure.

[Eclipse]

A volunteer environment yes, but one that as is stated in even the level one training for SMs one that is based on the USAF and its award and grade and rank structure.

Yes - and has been argued in other threads, if that grade and other decs are "important", then the playing field should be level.  This isn't about the "you're lucky I showed up at all" mentality, this is about equally recognizing all of those who do.

Perhaps this is something the diversity committee should address, since "diversity" is not limited to ethnicity.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

what do you mean diversity isn't limited to ethnicity? Do you have problems with people that are different than you?

I do recognize everyone who comes and gives their time, so long as they aren't cynical to others who do. If they have a problem with others who give of themselves then I have a problem. If you really don't like the structure, then there is a problem. That is the basis of decision making in CAP. I just don't understand how when you swore your oath that you didn't know that CAP is a military organization.

[Eclipse]

^ Its OK to actually read the messages instead of just making things up to make your arguments.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

OK Eclipse, Honesty and integrity may not be your thing, but it is mine. I don't make up my awards.

[Eclipse]

OK Eclipse, Honesty and integrity may not be your thing, but it is mine. I don't make up my awards.

Pardon me?

[Short Field]

I just don't understand how when you swore your oath that you didn't know that CAP is a military organization.

Would you please provide a source and citation for the statement that CAP is a military organization?    The following might help you.

CAP is a private, nonprofit, benevolent corporation chartered by Congress at Section 40301 of Title 36 of the U.S. Code.  Section 8150 of Title 5 of the U.S. Code makes it clear that CAP members are not granted the status of military or veteran by nature of their CAP membership.   

AFI 10-2701 para 1-3 states, "Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions. CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members."

Paramilitary? I can buy that.  Military?  Not likely.

[SarDragon]

And the white aviator shirt does not allow for display of awards either.

Since when?

Or are you referring to military bling in addition to CAP bling?