Flying commercial in CAP uniform

[RiverAux]

15-20 minutes to put on the uniform?  Maybe if you haven't already got all the ribbons, badges, etc. set up, but if everything is in place it shouldn't take any time at all.

But, lets say it does take you 15-20 minutes to put on a uniform, I stand by my statement that if you don't have that much slack in your travel schedule, you haven't done a very good job of planning.  If that is the margin you're working with, you're probably going to have troubles whether or not you're in uniform.

[DrJbdm]

   Wearing a uniform correctly requires more than just putting on the shirt, pull up the pants, tighten the belt and put your shoes on.

    It requires, placing of shirt stays to the shirt and attaching them to the socks, putting on the pants, putting on the belt, checking your gig line and making sure the belt is correctly placed and the buckle is not showing any blue.

    Once you have your shoes on, check the whole picture again, make sure everything is in its proper place. If everything is already laid out, and you know what you are doing, you can realistically be ready to go in 7 to 10 minutes.

     You cannot simply wear the uniform like you would any civilian shirt and pants; it takes much more care to insure that it is worn to the standards set by the Air Force for wearing of service dress uniforms.

[Short Field]

I guess I was doing it wrong for 28 years because it never took over 10 minutes between stepping out of the shower and heading out the door in my service dress.  Five minutes was plenty of time to change into a uniform when traveling.  That would be the service dress.  I guess my TIs in basic do a good job.

[Eagle400]

Guys/Gals, 

I can't help but think this nit-picking constitutes a big 'Who Cares' issue.

Seriously. 

A member wears blue service/service dress to the airport... hops on a plane... flies... exits after landing... then goes to whatever activity...

...And there's not much else to say really.   

[mynetdude]

Guys/Gals, 

I can't help but think this nit-picking constitutes a big 'Who Cares' issue.

Seriously. 

A member wears blue service/service dress to the airport... hops on a plane... flies... exits after landing... then goes to whatever activity...

...And there's not much else to say really.

until that member is a cadet who gets targeted by some madman who is having a bad day (doesn't have to be a terrorist) do you want that cadet?

[raivo]

Guys/Gals, 

I can't help but think this nit-picking constitutes a big 'Who Cares' issue.

Seriously. 

A member wears blue service/service dress to the airport... hops on a plane... flies... exits after landing... then goes to whatever activity...

...And there's not much else to say really.

Well, aside from the whole force-protection thing... the AF uniform is something the AF authorizes for CAP members to wear to CAP activities. If someone's activity directs them to wear their uniform flying commercial, or if they don't have time to change, fine by me. What I'm opposed to is CAP members wearing AF-style uniforms, just because they want to.

[DrJbdm]

   Come on, what's with all the fear mongering? Geez, for that instance the same cadet or Officer could stop in at the local stop and rob in uniform for a drink and some madman may target him or her. Give me a break. Maybe we shouldn't wear any uniforms at all, just in case!

   The cadet made a valid point, if you choose to wear the uniform while traveling to an out of state activity via commercial air, then so be it. We can debate all day long if it's wise or not, but in the end it comes down to what we choose to do.  At the same time, a little situational awareness can go a long way.

    As for uniforms, it all comes down to attention to detail. If you can put on the service dress uniform in 5 minutes or less and be looking sharp to Air Force standards than great.

[RADIOMAN015]

   Come on, what's with all the fear mongering? Geez, for that instance the same cadet or Officer could stop in at the local stop and rob in uniform for a drink and some madman may target him or her. Give me a break. Maybe we shouldn't wear any uniforms at all, just in case!

   The cadet made a valid point, if you choose to wear the uniform while traveling to an out of state activity via commercial air, then so be it. We can debate all day long if it's wise or not, but in the end it comes down to what we choose to do.  At the same time, a little situational awareness can go a long way.
 

You have to realize that some members lack common sense in CAP (cadets one can understand due to lack of experience, senior members "officers" (that can debated as a separate entry elsewhere) it's sad,  so rules have to be made and enforced.   

For the most part CAP member's shouldn't be stopping anywhere going to or from a meeting while in uniform.  As far as getting on a commercial plane, the goal should be NOT to wear a CAP uniform BUT I can see some circumstances (e.g. late getting out of a conference/meeting and have to make a return flight home) when the uniform MIGHT have to be worn.
RM     

[RADIOMAN015]

Not to mention the indignity of explaining certain things.

I was once escorting a group of cadet officers in service dress through a security checkpoint, and was dying with laughter as the cadet had to explain to the officer why there were metal objects under his trousers at the mid-thigh level.

Lord, it was funny. . . . . .

Ned I'm sure you and the group of cadets really made a good impression on the those poor TSA folks, who have to put up with a lot of non sense from the traveling public day in and day out.

Gee, just think if the cadets just wore normal civilian clothes without all the bling & ding, BET the whole operation would have gone much smoother.

So ya think that National will now exhibit some "common sense" and specifically state to fly in civilian attire, so as to prevent these kind of situations and be a true partner with other federal agencies by making their job easier 
RM   

[Ned]

Ned I'm sure you and the group of cadets really made a good impression on the those poor TSA folks, who have to put up with a lot of non sense from the traveling public day in and day out.

Gee, just think if the cadets just wore normal civilian clothes without all the bling & ding, BET the whole operation would have gone much smoother.

Gosh, I'd forgotten what a happy, upbeat person you are when it comes to CAP.

Not to ruin your rant and all, but it wasn't a TSA checkpoint and the cadets were required by regulation to be in service dress.

But I certainly agree that the TSA has a tough job and members of the public don't help much.

So ya think that National will now exhibit some "common sense" and specifically state to fly in civilian attire, so as to prevent these kind of situations and be a true partner with other federal agencies by making their job easier 
RM

We could never have as much common sense as you have or be as smart as you must be, so we won't even try.

But if anyone really cares, a nationally-appointed committee is actively working the 39-1 rewrite, and I'm confident that they will cover the commercial air travel situation, which undoubtedly affects somewhere between 3-8 % of CAP members.

Yes, the rewrite is way overdue, and there is some genuine confusion amongst our rank and file over uniform issues.

But frankly, National has a lot of issues on the plate ranging from finances to safety, and uniform manual revisions will continue to get the appropriate staff priority.  As you know, revising the 39-1 is a Herculean task requiring literally hundreds of hours of volunteer effort.

Feel free to work up your own draft and send it up through the chain.

[HGjunkie]

If your going to NHGA, you have to travel in blues.

[Fuzzy]

We heard.

[Rotorhead]

Guys/Gals, 

I can't help but think this nit-picking constitutes a big 'Who Cares' issue.

Seriously. 

A member wears blue service/service dress to the airport... hops on a plane... flies... exits after landing... then goes to whatever activity...

...And there's not much else to say really.

until that member is a cadet who gets targeted by some madman who is having a bad day (doesn't have to be a terrorist) do you want that cadet?

Here we go again.

Has this ever happened?

Maybe we shouldn't allow CAP members to fly at all, with all the madmen attacking domestic flights every day.

We could just mandate cars or perhaps Greyhound buses for travel.

[a2capt]

Just don't sit next to possible deranged people on those Greyhound busses ... they might have knives.

Nothing is 'safe'.

[RADIOMAN015]

Ned I'm sure you and the group of cadets really made a good impression on the those poor TSA folks, who have to put up with a lot of non sense from the traveling public day in and day out.

Gee, just think if the cadets just wore normal civilian clothes without all the bling & ding, BET the whole operation would have gone much smoother.

Gosh, I'd forgotten what a happy, upbeat person you are when it comes to CAP.

Not to ruin your rant and all, but it wasn't a TSA checkpoint and the cadets were required by regulation to be in service dress.

But I certainly agree that the TSA has a tough job and members of the public don't help much.

Again, IF we have cadet or senior members wearing these uniforms with all the under stuff to make that uniform look great, than as you state it presented an issue to the (building) security screener.  Airports screeners have to process significant numbers of people, and make some quick decision on whether they are/are not a threat.   Isn't it reasonable from a CAP policy prospective to ensure our traveling personnel facilitate rather than hinder the security process  

Again, even the military doesn't encourage their members to be wearing military uniforms while flying on commercial aircraft or utilizing other commercial transportation,  there is a reason for that, it's called "force protection".

I'm sure there's some people in CAP that would wear their uniform anywhere they can, if it were allowed.  (This is especially true with those senior members living in the "fantasy world" of CAP as a military force, etc).    I'm betting the regulation limiting uniform wear came up because of "incidents" involving those types of members.  Let them loose in uniform on a commercial aircraft flight and who knows what would happend :angel:

I believe overall CAP has some very good programs, and I do spend a good amount of time supporting my squadron, wing, & region. HOWEVER, this entire uniform issue is both disturbing to the organization (and me) as well as laughable to a certain extent with the amount of time spent on these issues -- a detraction to solving the more important issues.   It is very good that a committe is going to work on the uniform issues and hopefully there will be restraint in not costing the membership a lot of money, and good common sense on anything proposed. 
RM

[Cecil DP]

If a uniform is required for commercial travel, than it should be the CAP Specific uniform. (Yes, cadets can wear them). The reason is pragmatically if you have to wear  uniforms for a week, why start out with one already sweaty, messy, and dirty from having been worn for up to 12 hours en route. The the requirement for those activities that do require them should be changed to "Report in in the appropriate uniform" rather than travel in uniform.

[mynetdude]

If a uniform is required for commercial travel, than it should be the CAP Specific uniform. (Yes, cadets can wear them). The reason is pragmatically if you have to wear  uniforms for a week, why start out with one already sweaty, messy, and dirty from having been worn for up to 12 hours en route. The the requirement for those activities that do require them should be changed to "Report in in the appropriate uniform" rather than travel in uniform.

Now that has to be the best thing said in this entire thread, I don't understand why they can't start scoring NHGA cadets once they are at the activity and reporting with their appropriate uniform rather than at the airport as they currently do now which to me is silly!

[raivo]

Pragmatically, though, it's easier to just wear your uniform while travelling than to duck into a phone booth and change after you arrive...

[mynetdude]

Pragmatically, though, it's easier to just wear your uniform while travelling than to duck into a phone booth and change after you arrive...

Or get changed superman style!!!

[aveighter]

I too have seen our own Maj. Carrales traveling in uniform.  He looked sharp, a credit to the organization.

So, if you look sharp and a credit to the organization and the USAF then journey on I say. 

BUT, if your appearance brings to mind Jimmy Deans finest,  then please remain hidden from the public (and AF) eye, deep in the dark environs of whatever basement your unit meets in, swathed in such alternative and ample garb as may be currently approved.