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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: ICAPA - Iowa Civil Air Patrol Academy - What would you want to do?
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Author Topic: ICAPA - Iowa Civil Air Patrol Academy - What would you want to do?  (Read 5301 times)
DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2006, 12:19:52 AM »

With CTEP we took a middle of the road approach on that issue. We started experimentally w/ the ALS curriculum run in a few Sqs while CAC & CP staff were wrestling with resources from out of state. The first move was our CCSC for phase IV cadets. That set the foundation. Then we hit NCOA for widest exposure fastest impact, and progressed up the ladder from there. ALL instructors for ALL the cadet courses are phase IV cadet officers who must first graduate from CCSC. Adults do the logistics & support, but these very capable cadets run the show w/ very little supervision, and frankly there are very few SMs who could provide supervision at that level.

You can run a CTEP-ALS like course w/ adult instructors while you spin up a CCSC-type course for your top C/officers. As I said before, that really is an orientation/basic training type course & we need a real ALS/indiv ldrshp/pre-NCO course between there & NCOA. I can also see running an NCOA at that point too, if you use your prior-service resources to make a class of good junior NCOs who can then support the orientation/basic trng both centrally on staff & back at Sq where it needs to be rienforced so thse standards are maintained. The important thing is to lay down a good foundation first before you try to get to a sustainable program.
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TDHenderson
Member

Posts: 88

« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2006, 10:23:48 AM »

Great ideas!

We in Iowa are at the point where we have the infrastructure in place to support the activities (basically eight of our WTA's if you take out four for our ES Academies) and are now in need of the curriculum. 

Our Cadet cadre is bottom-heavy at the moment so that is why we are starting with the ALS and work our way up.  Along the way we are involving the precious few Cadet Officers and SNCO's we have to support, evaluate, and tweak the curriculum to best fit the WTA framework.  This will also allow us to help them develop by letting them perform in a mini-encampment environment each month. 

Also, starting at the November WTA and Wing Conference, we started having our Cadet Officers work along side the WTA Orderly Room staff.  This group of Officers runs the show for the weekend providing the Officer of the Day, CQ, Medical, Comms, Transportation, and Safety functions that bring order from chaos.  The Cadets are now learning valuable skills in assisting in these positions.


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CadetProgramGuy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,355

« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2006, 08:32:34 AM »

We need to have national take a look over the programs already out there and come up with a standard set of curricula.  That way, instead of everyone focusing their energy on creating these classes, they could simply download it and get to work.  These programs get started in each Wing, and then they tend to fall apart, and finally, go away entirely.  Fast-forward a couple of years, and someone starts all over again, creating a new set of classes… 

The programs are out there, TX, CA, and others; we just need to get the information out to everyone for general use.  I’m not saying that everyone would have to use the standardized classes, but it would be a great starting point.


This is the common mosconception of all programs.  We have to stop looking for national to change a program.  If Iowa Wing had waited for National to change how the Civil Air Patrol works with the National Guard, we would still be where we were 3 years ago.

It is up to us, the thinkers and the brainstormers to change what we do not like.  I believe it is up to us to develop a program that National can take and use.
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NEBoom
Seasoned Member

Posts: 204

« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2006, 05:26:06 PM »

We need to have national take a look over the programs already out there and come up with a standard set of curricula.  That way, instead of everyone focusing their energy on creating these classes, they could simply download it and get to work.  These programs get started in each Wing, and then they tend to fall apart, and finally, go away entirely.  Fast-forward a couple of years, and someone starts all over again, creating a new set of classes… 

The programs are out there, TX, CA, and others; we just need to get the information out to everyone for general use.  I’m not saying that everyone would have to use the standardized classes, but it would be a great starting point.

This is the common mosconception of all programs.  We have to stop looking for national to change a program.  If Iowa Wing had waited for National to change how the Civil Air Patrol works with the National Guard, we would still be where we were 3 years ago.

It is up to us, the thinkers and the brainstormers to change what we do not like.  I believe it is up to us to develop a program that National can take and use.

And besides, if we work together and are willing to share and borrow from one another, we'll end up with a "standard."  Plus it will be a standard that has been field tested and refined by the very people who are supposed to be using it.  It'll be harder on all of us to accomplish, but the end product will be better, IMHO.

Edit:  Had my reply inside CadetProgramGuy's quote.  Fixed.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 09:32:38 PM by NEBoom » Logged
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing
sjtrupp
Recruit

Posts: 36

« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2006, 06:07:47 PM »

We need to have national take a look over the programs already out there and come up with a standard set of curricula.  That way, instead of everyone focusing their energy on creating these classes, they could simply download it and get to work.  These programs get started in each Wing, and then they tend to fall apart, and finally, go away entirely.  Fast-forward a couple of years, and someone starts all over again, creating a new set of classes… 

The programs are out there, TX, CA, and others; we just need to get the information out to everyone for general use.  I’m not saying that everyone would have to use the standardized classes, but it would be a great starting point.


This is the common mosconception of all programs.  We have to stop looking for national to change a program.  If Iowa Wing had waited for National to change how the Civil Air Patrol works with the National Guard, we would still be where we were 3 years ago.

It is up to us, the thinkers and the brainstormers to change what we do not like.  I believe it is up to us to develop a program that National can take and use.

I didn’t say that national needed to “change” the program and Kirwan’s idea of sharing would be great if we could get everyone to agree to it.  Currently, though, most wings are a little possessive of their programs, CA Wing has even “copywrited” their material.  Part of this is due to the fact that they have put so much effort into their programs and wouldn’t want it diluted by someone using their material, but coming up with a sub-par program that is attributed to them. 

National would be able to provide a cover with a standard program that takes the good things from the programs out there.  I’m also not saying that Rob or Curt would have to do the work, just be the face and get behind this idea.  Someone would have to ask for all the material out there, and it would be difficult for any one person to get it without assistance from National.  Now, if a Wing like CA or TX would be willing for National to put their program out on the web as part of the “Best Practices”, then none of this work would be necessary.  But to date, none of these programs have been so gracious.

The programs have been developed and national just needs to distribute them out to everyone so that we could get to work, rather than working on the work.  We spend so must of our time re-inventing the wheel, creating these classes over and over again.
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DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2006, 06:10:45 PM »

With due respect... I agree we have to make it happen in lieu of National not doing their job, but that's not the right way & makes for 50 seperate little CAPs that all do things their own way - oh sorry, tailored to their unique environment. It's BS & you know it, it just happens to be necessary BS until national decides to actually take charge, take up these good ideas at work on the ground, and take a reorganized CAP into the right way of doing things.
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NEBoom
Seasoned Member

Posts: 204

« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2006, 09:43:05 PM »

With due respect... I agree we have to make it happen in lieu of National not doing their job, but that's not the right way & makes for 50 seperate little CAPs that all do things their own way - oh sorry, tailored to their unique environment. It's BS & you know it, it just happens to be necessary BS until national decides to actually take charge, take up these good ideas at work on the ground, and take a reorganized CAP into the right way of doing things.

Just trying to be realistic out here in "fly over country."  Yeah, it'd be great if National stepped up and did like you and Steve are suggesting.  It would save a lot of work to be sure.  But waiting for that is a little like leaving the runway lights on for Amelia Earhart.  We can't just leave our programs bound up for that long waiting for National to quit messing with uniform issues and all the other BS they occupy themselves with.
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Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing
DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2006, 06:05:51 PM »

With due respect... I agree we have to make it happen in lieu of National not doing their job, but that's not the right way & makes for 50 seperate little CAPs that all do things their own way - oh sorry, tailored to their unique environment. It's BS & you know it, it just happens to be necessary BS until national decides to actually take charge, take up these good ideas at work on the ground, and take a reorganized CAP into the right way of doing things.

Just trying to be realistic out here in "fly over country."  Yeah, it'd be great if National stepped up and did like you and Steve are suggesting.  It would save a lot of work to be sure.  But waiting for that is a little like leaving the runway lights on for Amelia Earhart.  We can't just leave our programs bound up for that long waiting for National to quit messing with uniform issues and all the other BS they occupy themselves with.

Not suggesting you stand around with your... uh, book... in your hand. For sure get to work hard charge away. Absolutely, beg borrow & steal everything you can get your hands on from other wings - rather than reinvent the wheel. And, do your best with what you can actually control or influence.

However, from a military perspective, that's a bunch of idiots running off in their own varrious directions in an uncoordinated effort leaving the command element no opportunity to lead. Now sure that presuposes the command element is competent & capable of leading, even if they're wrong, and that's generally NOT the case in CAP, but still it all makes us look like reckless immature fools if we aren't VERY VERY careful about how we let people see those efforts to make things right in spite of our command.

Ultimately though, command has to grow a set & make things right. The probability of smart/strong enough people rising to those positions to do that, AND that those individuals would be selfless & headed in the right direction for the org rather than just personal power grabbing... well it just ain't that high. And that is why I favor the AF temporarily stepping in to reset the structure & rebuild the foundation over a couple years before handing back the reigns with better oversight & accountability. The probability of that is not as hard, but still not something you should leave the landing lights on for. Something has to give though or it's gonna be bad for CAP in the long run.
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NEBoom
Seasoned Member

Posts: 204

« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2006, 10:42:16 PM »

With due respect... I agree we have to make it happen in lieu of National not doing their job, but that's not the right way & makes for 50 seperate little CAPs that all do things their own way - oh sorry, tailored to their unique environment. It's BS & you know it, it just happens to be necessary BS until national decides to actually take charge, take up these good ideas at work on the ground, and take a reorganized CAP into the right way of doing things.

Just trying to be realistic out here in "fly over country."  Yeah, it'd be great if National stepped up and did like you and Steve are suggesting.  It would save a lot of work to be sure.  But waiting for that is a little like leaving the runway lights on for Amelia Earhart.  We can't just leave our programs bound up for that long waiting for National to quit messing with uniform issues and all the other BS they occupy themselves with.

Not suggesting you stand around with your... uh, book... in your hand. For sure get to work hard charge away. Absolutely, beg borrow & steal everything you can get your hands on from other wings - rather than reinvent the wheel. And, do your best with what you can actually control or influence.

However, from a military perspective, that's a bunch of idiots running off in their own varrious directions in an uncoordinated effort leaving the command element no opportunity to lead. Now sure that presuposes the command element is competent & capable of leading, even if they're wrong, and that's generally NOT the case in CAP, but still it all makes us look like reckless immature fools if we aren't VERY VERY careful about how we let people see those efforts to make things right in spite of our command.

Ultimately though, command has to grow a set & make things right. The probability of smart/strong enough people rising to those positions to do that, AND that those individuals would be selfless & headed in the right direction for the org rather than just personal power grabbing... well it just ain't that high. And that is why I favor the AF temporarily stepping in to reset the structure & rebuild the foundation over a couple years before handing back the reigns with better oversight & accountability. The probability of that is not as hard, but still not something you should leave the landing lights on for. Something has to give though or it's gonna be bad for CAP in the long run.

I fully agree.
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Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: ICAPA - Iowa Civil Air Patrol Academy - What would you want to do?
 


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