New CAWG Ground Team & UDF Uniform

[RiverAux]

the commonly adopted SAR uniform recognized by law enforcement nationwide.

Incidentally, I would like to find some document to back up this statement from the CA Wing supplement. 

Note the idiocy here:

The CAWG GT uniform is not authorized for:
· Ground Team or UDF Team members while transporting to or from a search base, or at a search base in a out of service status

In order to go out on a GT mission, you actually have to bring two shirts with you.  You have to wear the BBDU shirt while driving to the base or while waiting for assignment, then you have to change into the orange shirt to go hike around and then change back into the blue shirt before going home.  If they feel the need to wear the orange shirt, just wear it during the entire mission.  Just how good looking are these shirts going to be after being wadded up in a pack during the time you're wearing the other one. 

[Major Lord]

Its gratifying to know though, that other agency's leaders must have had "Ken" dolls too,
Major Lord

I am personally offended that you would take such a cheap shot at the wing commander in a public forum!

He is a widely respected police officer who has repeatedly put his life on the line for the likes of you and me.

(Although he does dress well, and I could see why other agencies might admire that . .  .)

No offense was intended to the Wing Commander, but I do object to CAP's childish fixation on uniforms and its good to know that we are not the sole victims of this fashionista compulsiveness.  I am offended by your clear homophobic anti-"ken" doll prejudice! (just kidding)  Many CAP members believe that Ken is an "Action Figure", and not a doll, so its not so poofish...... The Commanders' standing as a LEO is respected and appreciated. I also understand the OPD "Barbie" is a great collectible, and looks stunning in Kevlar.....

Major Lord

[N Harmon]

The alternative is taking our toys and going home which would be incredibly childish.  Some posts have suggested doing just that, in apparent ignorance of the value CAP ground teams can offer...even in California.

Taking our toys and going home? No quite. You see, CAP doesn't go until it is called to go, and until that happens there is nothing to take our toys home from. Those places in California that truly need CAP assistance won't care what uniform we wear as long as it is semi-professional.

And the issue of added expense is never weak, especially when it is the volunteer footing the bill.

[N Harmon]

By the way, where can one purchase one of these orange BDU shirts? I can't seem to find them from my usual sources.

[PHall]

By the way, where can one purchase one of these orange BDU shirts? I can't seem to find them from my usual sources.

They're not "BDU" shirts. They're the same shirts that CalTrans employees wear. They can usually be found in uniform stores.

Of course if you're not in California and your state highway department employees don't wear orange shirts then you're on your own.
But I'm sure places like Galls would have something.

[Pumbaa]

Hell, let's just wear this instead!

[wuzafuzz]

The alternative is taking our toys and going home which would be incredibly childish.  Some posts have suggested doing just that, in apparent ignorance of the value CAP ground teams can offer...even in California.

Taking our toys and going home? No quite. You see, CAP doesn't go until it is called to go, and until that happens there is nothing to take our toys home from. Those places in California that truly need CAP assistance won't care what uniform we wear as long as it is semi-professional.

And the issue of added expense is never weak, especially when it is the volunteer footing the bill.

If no one ever called there would be no need for the uniform.  People do call, but it would be nice if they called more often.

Using a minimal expense as an excuse to avoid doing something IS weak.  Anyone who can drop a lot of money on all their GT gear can afford an inexpensive orange shirt.  I've seen the lightweight orange shirts (button-up, not tee shirts) for well under $20 at WalMart.  Far less expensive than plenty of other uniform items we use.

To RiverAux's point: yes, it is completely absurd to be required to change out of that orange shirt during transport or waiting for assignment.  Following their logic, flightsuits should be banned while waiting for flights.   

[Major Lord]

http://adirondack-books.com/sargear/teamshirt.htm

Major Lord

[N Harmon]

If no one ever called there would be no need for the uniform.  People do call, but it would be nice if they called more often.

So, these local governments...having exhausted their local resources, are in need of CAP assistance but not so much that they still feel the need to inject their own sensibilities in what we wear as a uniform. 

http://adirondack-books.com/sargear/teamshirt.htm

Major Lord

Not available in standard BBDU sizes.

[heliodoc]

My take for its .02

Local governments are losing the resources due to many factors, so I don't see what that has to to do with injecting uniform issues

CAP has many problems with its OWN uniform issues as evidenced by 78.9999999%  of the thread content of CAPTalk...

CAP just ought to remember.......its the customer who asks for us...bantering on CAPTalk about local government and how screwed up it is or may seem......CAP just ought to stop throwing stones  until it gets it entire house in order

CAP is begging for missions, but sometimes doesn't have the capacity to stop biting the hands that feed it as far as issuance of missions.

Folks from the EMA's are probably reading these forums wondering  who these folks are.    If CAl EMA / CAL Trans wants polka dots on Nomex, that is their call.  Either we meet the requirement or go home.

CAP is a fine organization.  But, by itself, lacks any real horsepower, in making major local statute or rule changes on other SAR organizations workings and maybe better off in getting itself right on a totally new uniform that, at least makes sense for the missions we do and if that requires a new set of clothing,  so be it, It'll keep Propper, MilSpec, and even VANGUARD in business for a loooooooooong time to come!!

[wingnut55]

The question?

How many Ground Team Members do we actually have in CAWG??

Less than 20?   Maybe 30?

CAWG is a paper Tiger in Ground SAR

So what is the Big Deal?

[Jerry Jacobs]

The question?

How many Ground Team Members do we actually have in CAWG??

Less than 20?   Maybe 30?

CAWG is a paper Tiger in Ground SAR

So what is the Big Deal?

CAWG Currently has over 30 qualified GTL's and about 120 qualified GTM's.

[Eclipse]

The question?

How many Ground Team Members do we actually have in CAWG??

Less than 20?   Maybe 30?

CAWG is a paper Tiger in Ground SAR

So what is the Big Deal?

CAWG Currently has over 30 qualified GTL's and about 120 qualified GTM's.

How many answer the phone when called or have participated in a mission in the last calendar year?

[tdepp]

If the State of California (our client) wants our members to wear a special shirt for safety and security reasons during SARs and NHQ allows it, what's all the fuss about?  We should be happy and proud that California wants to utilize us.  So get the item, put it in your day bag if your are a CAWG GTM, train up, and be ready to go when called.  For the rest of us?  Move along. Nothing to see here. 

[davidsinn]

The question?

How many Ground Team Members do we actually have in CAWG??

Less than 20?   Maybe 30?

CAWG is a paper Tiger in Ground SAR

So what is the Big Deal?

CAWG Currently has over 30 qualified GTL's and about 120 qualified GTM's.

My group, which is less than a third of my wing has 12 GTLs and 63 GTMs. My wing has 44 GTLs. Last I heard CAWG had four times the members that we do. Maybe they should worry about more important things than clothes?

[RiverAux]

Well, if CA Wing has been so thoroughly excluded from GSAR work as it has been based on comments made on CAPTalk at various times, we shouldn't be surprised at those pitifully weak numbers.  But, if you want a weak GSAR program, look at Oregon (4 GTL, 10 GTM).  Texas, which has a similar number of CAP members has 99 GTL and 238 GTM.

[Eclipse]

Wow, I didn't even take notice of how weak those numbers are considering the size of CAWG.

I just did a quick count and my wing has over 50 GTLs and more than 60GT's (on top pf the GTL's, of course).

And we're less than 1/2 CAWG.

[N Harmon]

If the State of California (our client) wants our members to wear a special shirt for safety and security reasons during SARs and NHQ allows it, what's all the fuss about?

It begs the question that special orange shirts increase safety or security. If the State of California wants our members to wear the flag of the state of California instead of that of the United States, would you be asking what the fuss is about?

[tdepp]

If the State of California (our client) wants our members to wear a special shirt for safety and security reasons during SARs and NHQ allows it, what's all the fuss about?

It begs the question that special orange shirts increase safety or security. If the State of California wants our members to wear the flag of the state of California instead of that of the United States, would you be asking what the fuss is about?

N:
But alas, they're not asking our members to wear the Golden Bear Flag patch.  They're asking us to wear orange.  We already have orange vests.  And NHQ approves the limited wear of the California Distinctive SAR Shirt or whatever the hail it is called.  So, not even close to the same scenario.  Consider your strawman sufficiently burned up.    Now move along, nothing to see here. 

[SarDragon]

Besides, we already have the golden bear on the wing patch.