SLS / CLC Prohibited as fundraisers - need a cite

[Eclipse]

I know I've seen this somewhere, but can't put a reg on it, anyone?

[Gunner C]

Do you mean as far as a registration fee to cover expenses?  We used to charge registration +$10.  It kept our unit cash fund moving.  It also made sure that we had enough money in case we ran over budget.  I haven't seen anything that prohibits this but anything over a nominal fee would be inappropriate IMO.  We turned over the extra money after an SLS for the next training opportunity, usually the wing aircrew school.  We'd give out goodies and tools (plastic nav computer, protractor, patches, observer wings, etc), then we'd add $10 or so to that cost.  Soon we were able to keep the cost even lower with the on hand operating funds we had and was able to charge exactly what it cost the unit to put on the training.  But the cost for SLS was never more than $25 total; A/C was about $35 IIRC.

[Eclipse]

Yes - basically that, specifically.

The idea is that they should be run basically at cost or be a wing expense, so that it not a gateway for members.

[lordmonar]

I see no problem with addin a little overhead charge to the course fee (like rounding to the nearest $5 but nothing more then that).

[Eclipse]

I see no problem with addin a little overhead charge to the course fee (like rounding to the nearest $5 but nothing more then that).

I don't disagree - in this case 50-17, which is the applicable reg, only comments that money is provided to wings for SLS, not that they may
not charge more than cost.  As it turns out, this is a local wing supplement.

So nothing to see here for 51/52nds of the membership, carry on...

[davedove]

I see no problem with addin a little overhead charge to the course fee (like rounding to the nearest $5 but nothing more then that).

I don't either, and we do it at our squadron for some things.  My main concern is that it's one more case of hitting up the members for some more cash.

[swamprat86]

I don't think National provides funding for Wings to conduct SLS or CLC anymore.  I am not 100% on that, but I thought I heard that somewhere.

[Eclipse]

c. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of SLS. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount. When
NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report
(Attachment 6), from the SLS course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander.
NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one SLS per year; however, only one SLS is funded.

d. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of CLCs. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount.
When NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report
(Attachment 6), from the CLC course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander.
NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one CLC per year; however, only one CLC is funded.

I can't say if these funds are actually being dispersed, but 50-17 at least calls for it.

[ßτε]

c. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of SLS. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount. When
NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report
(Attachment 6), from the SLS course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander.
NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one SLS per year; however, only one SLS is funded.

d. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of CLCs. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount.
When NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director's Report
(Attachment 6), from the CLC course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander.
NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one CLC per year; however, only one CLC is funded.

I can't say if these funds are actually being dispersed, but 50-17 at least calls for it.

You are quoting an obsolete version of CAPR 50-17. The current version does not have any reference to funding for SLS or CLC.

[Eclipse]

Ugh, yes  I am...

The only funding provided now is for RSC, CCRSC, and higher schools.

[AdAstra]

In a Perfect CAP, these required training courses would be offered free-of-charge to our members. Whenever I speak about professional development or recruiting/retention, I emphasize that these are not just expenses, but investments in our membership and our organization. Years ago, NHQ funded one SLS and CLC each year per wing (FWIW, none of my predecessors knew if they'd received these funds or where they went), AND furnished the student material. No longer. In reality, there is no other funding source that I know of except to charge students a modest fee.

It's a simple matter to calculate the break-even point (course material+binders+refreshments divided by number of students) and charge accordingly. Years ago, my wife was livid that the SLS director admitted that the profit was going to the group's building fund! Last week, a student at our Unit Commander's Course asked if it was OK to plan and offer a course with the goal of making a profit. I was literally jumping up-and-down (for effect) and both the Wing Vice Commander and Chief of Staff were saying No, No, No. And the other students agreed. Yet this local member persisted....

[Chappie]

In a Perfect CAP, these required training courses would be offered free-of-charge to our members. Whenever I speak about professional development or recruiting/retention, I emphasize that these are not just expenses, but investments in our membership and our organization. Years ago, NHQ funded one SLS and CLC each year per wing (FWIW, none of my predecessors knew if they'd received these funds or where they went), AND furnished the student material. No longer. In reality, there is no other funding source that I know of except to charge students a modest fee.

It's a simple matter to calculate the break-even point (course material+binders+refreshments divided by number of students) and charge accordingly. Years ago, my wife was livid that the SLS director admitted that the profit was going to the group's building fund! Last week, a student at our Unit Commander's Course asked if it was OK to plan and offer a course with the goal of making a profit. I was literally jumping up-and-down (for effect) and both the Wing Vice Commander and Chief of Staff were saying No, No, No. And the other students agreed. Yet this local member persisted....

Charlie, I feel your pain    Some members just don't understand the corporate aspect of the organization -- with its responsibilities and liabilities.  "Breaking even" is the principle we are using for the PCR CCRSC.  The seed money from NHQ  is supplemented by charging a modest registration fee (and students pay for their own billeting) to cover all the expenses of conducting the staff college.  We are a lean, mean training machine

[AdAstra]

Lean mean training machine, indeed! Sounds like I need to print a bumper sticker. But theft of intellectual property...from a chaplain...?

[Fubar]

I've been hearing rumors of SLS and CLC courses being held at the same time with several shared agenda topics in order to save money. Just open up the movable wall between the two classrooms for the shared agenda topics, and then close it back up for smaller groups. Has this been tried elsewhere?

The approach seems OK for the SLS students since everything is new, but I'd think the CLC students would find hearing some of the same topics they heard in SLS previously a little boring.

[Eclipse]

The approach seems OK for the SLS students since everything is new, but I'd think the CLC students would find hearing some of the same topics they heard in SLS previously a little boring.

We run the schools concurrently, share instructors and resources, and are considering adding a TLC or UCC to the mix to further
economize the scale on instructors, but other than some wing-mandated extra-curricular classes on LG and IG, there isn't much that
is shared between the two schools.

[AdAstra]

California Wing has been doing this for years, with one Project Officer setting up facilities, and SLS and CLC Directors concentrate and curriculum and schedule. Seems to work great, altho once in a great while I still get the question: You mean I can get credit for BOTH SLS and CLC at the same time??

The SLS and CLC curriculum are completely different, addressed to slightly different audiences. So except for the welcome and perhaps a joint session to present certificates, we run two different side-by-side courses. Yes, we can have the same presenters run back and forth, presenting different topics.

Two years ago, we tried adding UCC to one of the weekends. It saved me making two weekend trips on nearby weekends. We'll do that again in May at Travis AFB. Works great if you have the classroom facilities.

[ltcmark]

I could not find a specific reg on the SLS/CLC fundraising.  As with any CAP activity, if it involves money, it needs to have wing CC approval.  See CAPR 173-1 paragraph 5, 27 and CAPR173-4 paragraph 3a.  It would ultimately be the wing CC's decision if this should be a money making fundraiser.   CAPR 50-17 says that the SLS/CLC "should" be run by wing.   That leaves some room for interpretation as to a squadron or group running a school.   The wing CC is the responsible person for any money raised and dispersed in CAP's name.  By the regs, all money has to go through wing banker.  It does not matter the activity.

When I was involved in wing staff, it was our policy at the time to just cover the cost of any school run by wing.  If there was any money left over, that went back into that departments training budget for the next class.

On a side note, I have seen many people use CAP activities as a good source for a second income.  The biggest abuse that I witnessed was with a cadet from our squadron that went to a wing sponsored powered flight encampment back in the early 1990's.  This cadet paid $700 to get to his solo, class size was 20 cadets.  The school used CAP aircraft and CAP members for instructors.  The weather was really bad that week and they only got to fly 5 hours with no one getting to the solo flight.  I figured total income for the school was $14,000.  When the cadet returned to the squadron, he mentioned that he was disappointed in not being able to solo and he felt the cost was a little high for what he got.  I figured this to be $140 per hour for a CAP aircraft   I started doing some inquiries with the director of the school and the wing CC at the time.  I was told all the money was spent on the school.  I asked to see the receipts and expenditures on the school.  I was then told by the director and the wing CC that I was out of line with my questioning and that all the money was spent on the activity.  My conclusion was that someone walked off with about $6,000.  Nice income for a weeks work.

[Fubar]

The SLS and CLC curriculum are completely different, addressed to slightly different audiences. So except for the welcome and perhaps a joint session to present certificates, we run two different side-by-side courses. Yes, we can have the same presenters run back and forth, presenting different topics.

The one being planned actually shares agenda items, such as a discussions on professional development and emergency services. I would have thought the two would have completely different curriculums, but apparently the plan is to occasionally teach the same topic to both groups at the same time.

[FW]

On a side note, I have seen many people use CAP activities as a good source for a second income.  The biggest abuse that I witnessed was with a cadet from our squadron that went to a wing sponsored powered flight encampment back in the early 1990's.  This cadet paid $700 to get to his solo, class size was 20 cadets.  The school used CAP aircraft and CAP members for instructors.  The weather was really bad that week and they only got to fly 5 hours with no one getting to the solo flight.  I figured total income for the school was $14,000.  When the cadet returned to the squadron, he mentioned that he was disappointed in not being able to solo and he felt the cost was a little high for what he got.  I figured this to be $140 per hour for a CAP aircraft   I started doing some inquiries with the director of the school and the wing CC at the time.  I was told all the money was spent on the school.  I asked to see the receipts and expenditures on the school.  I was then told by the director and the wing CC that I was out of line with my questioning and that all the money was spent on the activity.  My conclusion was that someone walked off with about $6,000.  Nice income for a weeks work.

I doubt that was the case; even in the 90's however, the WBP and e accounting would make such a "disbursement" impossible to get away with today.

There is no prohibition on using any PD school to be used as a way to  "fund raise" for the wing/group/squadron however, I think it is not a good way to raise funds.  We pay enough in time and money to be a member.  It's much better to fund raise by getting hold of "OPM" to add to our coffers.....

[EMT-83]

The SLS and CLC curriculum are completely different, addressed to slightly different audiences. So except for the welcome and perhaps a joint session to present certificates, we run two different side-by-side courses. Yes, we can have the same presenters run back and forth, presenting different topics.

The one being planned actually shares agenda items, such as a discussions on professional development and emergency services. I would have thought the two would have completely different curriculums, but apparently the plan is to occasionally teach the same topic to both groups at the same time.

They are totally different courses and do have completely different curriculums. I guess you could modify the content some, but PD and ES aren't included in CLC.