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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Please get rid of the plastic encased ranks
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Author Topic: Please get rid of the plastic encased ranks  (Read 23272 times)
Eagle400
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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2008, 01:29:48 AM »

Thank you for the kind words, Majors Carrales and Kachenmeister. 

Just trying to get back into CAPTalk without causing waves... I just completed troll rehab... 
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JayT
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2008, 01:53:07 AM »

^Sadly, there are those that would prefer nothing "military-esque" in CAP.  However our organizations history and mere operating method dictates we use some of the military establishments methods and ways. 



That response has nothing to do with anything.

What I'm saying is that most members don't want to dump everything military related, some just might want to find a less delicate balance between the military and non military.

For the record, I'm for the militaryish side.
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"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."
Eagle400
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2008, 02:10:56 AM »

What I'm saying is that most members don't want to dump everything military related, some just might want to find a less delicate balance between the military and non military.

For the record, I'm for the militaryish side.

That's what I'm saying, too.  What you're referring to is the "corporate mindset" of some members who would gladly get rid of the military customs and traditions of CAP and replace them with corporate customs and traditions.

What they are doing is trying to make CAP's atmosphere into something they're more comfortable and familiar with.  Most of them come from the corporate world, and want CAP to change to accomodate them rather than the other way around. 

You know, I am impressed with you, FO Themann.  You kind of remind me of myself.  I, too am a former cadet and wish to preserve the military customs and traditions of CAP.  I have read your posts and I can tell you think critically and I am sure you are a good leader.  Keep fighting the good fight and preserving CAP's customs, heritage and traditions. 
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SSgt Rudin
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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2008, 02:57:01 AM »

So back to getting rid of the plastic encased grade insignia. We could always use Navy rank insignia for flight suits. Full color grade insignia on OD, added bonus the edges are already finished  :)

« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 03:04:14 AM by 2d Lt Rudin » Report to moderator   Logged
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arajca
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2008, 03:24:52 AM »

Or we could just use the existing CAP embroirdered grade insignia on dark blue.
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Gunner C
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2008, 03:34:55 AM »

Can someone explain to me how some of you really hard corp military guys can get off saying "I take it you want to get rid of all things military in CAP?"

There's such thing as balance and compromise, and frankly, that line of bull is pathetic and insulting towards the bulk of CAP members.

It's spelled corps, not corp.

The term is hard core, not hard corps.

GC
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Eagle400
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2008, 03:36:51 AM »

Or we could just use the existing CAP embroirdered grade insignia on dark blue.

And change all the other insignia to dark blue, too.  I don't like the ultramarine blue; I think it is woefully out of date, just like the plastic encased rank insignia.
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arajca
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 03:42:31 AM »

Or we could just use the existing CAP embroirdered grade insignia on dark blue.

And change all the other insignia to dark blue, too.  I don't like the ultramarine blue; I think it is woefully out of date, just like the plastic encased rank insignia.
That's on the bdu/bbdu, not the flightsuit. I think such a suggestion is making its way through the pipeline and will probably be implemented with the authorization to start wearing the abu's.
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Gunner C
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 03:45:27 AM »

So back to getting rid of the plastic encased grade insignia. We could always use Navy rank insignia for flight suits. Full color grade insignia on OD, added bonus the edges are already finished  :)



There's a couple of things:

The Capt insignia is the sea service design, we use the Army/Air Force design

The Maj & Lt Col leaves are also different - different shape (slight, but noticeable)

The sea services sew on their rank insignia so it's really large (square) where we sew them on to conform more to the shape and size of the insignia - once again, this is sea service stuff.

I do, however, agree that we should use the full color sew-on embroidered rather than the plastic stuff.  There's no reason why not - it certainly sets us apart from our RM brethren.

GC
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afgeo4
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2008, 03:51:22 AM »

afgeo4
Got to admit you put a bullet in me with the USCG one. Score 10 points on that one as I never would have thought of that and we have 2 USCG stations within 50 miles of us. I guess that is pretty valid. However being around the CAP for a short while (my first Form 5 check ride was Sept 1975) one thing I did learn is if you intend to move up and do certain jobs, and I will be honest I do wish to do certain things in the CAP that include upward mobility you will never do it as a TSgt. That is just reality. Staying a MP it is fine however today we have some very unique missions and a whole new structure in the NIMS and ICS world and in my Civilian job am very involved in that world. So I am guilty of wanting to now participate at a higher level. I was in the Army as a Spec 4 and the USAF as a Tsgt and they were great ranks to be but in the CAP it just does not work the same.
However your point is well taken and respected.

As for Vanguard well yes they are having a great bit of difficulty to say the least finding a supplier. They have not had Captain bars for a very long long time and don't think they will anytime soon.

CAP is funny when it comes to grade. Most people don't care what grade you are when it comes to unit leadership and operational leadership/position. That's the official CAP stance too. However, if you want to be a Wing Staff officer or higher, you'll pretty much need to be an officer and not and NCO. Technically you don't, but I just think most Wing CC's would almost insist on it. Aside from that, there should be nothing that isn't accessible to an NCO in CAP that is accessible to an officer (aside from USAF PME exams).
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GEORGE LURYE
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« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2008, 04:19:20 AM »

[
In my experience, new members who are not military or former cadets of some kind very rarely wear anything other than a polo and/or a flight suit.  Some who deal directly with cadets will wear the white/grays.  Every one of us in our squadron who are former cadets almost always wear AF uniforms.

Maybe it is because they feel comfortable with easy to maintain uniforms like the polo shirt or flight suit? 
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Wilson #2640
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« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2008, 04:25:00 AM »

Maybe it is because they feel comfortable with easy to maintain uniforms like the polo shirt or flight suit? 

Bit of a "cop out" wouldn't you say.  Not exactally excellence in all we do.

But seriously, what we need to fight is the "sliding line."  That "path of least resistance" that pushes us into an unprofessional appearance. 

By this I mean, if they say "Polo shirts can be worn with grey slacks" we see people in a faded polo and ratty jeans...sometimes grey...sometimes so old that they shine.  That is unprofessional.

As for rank, the plastic encased items are cumbersome and, at least in South Texas, expensive to have put on (like 30 dollars) due to its unusual nature.  I believe it is time to retire or "optionalize" that rank infavor of a more modern option.
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Eagle400
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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2008, 04:31:19 AM »

As for rank, the plastic encased items are cumbersome and, at least in South Texas, expensive to have put on (like 30 dollars) due to its unusual nature.

There's another reason the plastic encased ranks have to go - $$$.

The cloth rank insignias are more economical than the plastic ones.     

I believe it is time to retire or "optionalize" that rank infavor of a more modern option.

No, I think that CAP should just get rid of them altogether.  They are out of date, cumbersome, and expensive.   
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2008, 04:35:52 AM »

No, I think that CAP should just get rid of them altogether.  They are out of date, cumbersome, and expensive.   

Optionalize is the first reasonable step in getting rid of them.  Like an unofficial phase out.

1) Optionalize it in favor of a more popular item

2) wide spread use of cloth rank

3) phase out date

4) only a handful of die hards will wear them to the sunset date.

Logical and viable.
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SJFedor
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« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2008, 04:50:36 AM »

Maybe it is because they feel comfortable with easy to maintain uniforms like the polo shirt or flight suit? 

Bit of a "cop out" wouldn't you say.  Not exactally excellence in all we do.

But seriously, what we need to fight is the "sliding line."  That "path of least resistance" that pushes us into an unprofessional appearance. 

By this I mean, if they say "Polo shirts can be worn with grey slacks" we see people in a faded polo and ratty jeans...sometimes grey...sometimes so old that they shine.  That is unprofessional.

As for rank, the plastic encased items are cumbersome and, at least in South Texas, expensive to have put on (like 30 dollars) due to its unusual nature.  I believe it is time to retire or "optionalize" that rank infavor of a more modern option.

Ship it up to Nashville and I'll get it done for you. All the Metro Nashville PD line officers (Lt's, Capt's, etc) have the plastic mounted grade insignia on their cold weather jackets. I got my Capt bars attached to my flight suit for $3.20 or something in that neighborhood.
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
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« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2008, 05:00:12 AM »

By this I mean, if they say "Polo shirts can be worn with grey slacks" we see people in a faded polo and ratty jeans...sometimes grey...sometimes so old that they shine.  That is unprofessional. 

As for rank, the plastic encased items are cumbersome and, at least in South Texas, expensive to have put on (like 30 dollars) due to its unusual nature.  I believe it is time to retire or "optionalize" that rank infavor of a more modern option.

A CAP Uniform is a CAP Uniform.  The only unprofessional part would be someone not pointing out to the member that they were wearing a faded polo shirt and ratty jeans and needed to update their uniform.    We jump on people who need a haircut in a military style uniform (worst offenders are ones in flight suits) and anyone who is wearing a worn out uniforms.   

One of my peeves is seeing people in the Air Force Style uniform with a wrinkled blue shirt.  It takes a starch job at a laundry to make it look decent.  You can get by with spray starch and a iron but that fades after about 4 hours.

The plastic encased rank cost me the same to get sewed on as the other sew-on rank - about two dollars a uniform.   Thirty bucks is really ripping you off!
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Wilson #2640
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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2008, 05:05:58 AM »


The plastic encased rank cost me the same to get sewed on as the other sew-on rank - about two dollars a uniform.   Thirty bucks is really ripping you off!

Not me, I don't currently wear a flight suit...I reserve that for those of the more direct Aviation pursuasion, pilots and aircrew.  Kingsville is a Navy town...and you bet your sweet bippy Corpus Christi is one as well.  I don't think anyone around here uses plastic encased rank...maybe it is the sheer "novelty" of it.

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Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
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davedove
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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2008, 01:11:46 PM »

So back to getting rid of the plastic encased grade insignia. We could always use Navy rank insignia for flight suits. Full color grade insignia on OD, added bonus the edges are already finished  :)



My question is why isn't something like this done for the other services.  Maybe it has and I'm just not aware of it, but it makes a lot of sense.  There would be no question of whether you folded the material under to the right size border.  It would be a lot easier to sew on.

It would, of course, cost a little more to get the edges finished, but it would be so much easier.
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David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
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Smokey
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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2008, 04:06:02 PM »

I'm a bit late...but to CCSE....I sir, salute you.

Your eloquent comments on the corporate &  military differences was well thought out and conveyed.

Thank you for your comment  that was respectful and reasoned.

I just wish I would have thought of it.
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Eagle400
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« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2008, 06:54:13 PM »

I'm a bit late...but to CCSE....I sir, salute you.

Your eloquent comments on the corporate &  military differences was well thought out and conveyed.

Thank you for your comment  that was respectful and reasoned.

I just wish I would have thought of it.

Thank you for the kind words, sir.  I salute you for your service. 

...And I want you to know you have the coolest job in CAP!   8)
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Please get rid of the plastic encased ranks
 


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