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Author Topic: Red Service Ribbon  (Read 4079 times)
LeeWilon
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« on: September 13, 2018, 01:50:42 PM »

Is there paperwork involved in awarding the 2 year Red Service Ribbon to a Cadet?
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hamburgee
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 02:36:34 PM »

You should request approval for the ribbon through your chain of command, once it's approved, if you go to the Service Ribbons page in eServices, you can click "Add Previously Authorized Ribbon" to add the Red Service Ribbon to your file.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 03:00:20 PM »

Assuming your unit requires it be "awarded" - the Personnel Officer will need to do a Form 2A
and get it approved by the CC.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 03:30:42 PM »

To piggyback on Eclipse...

Fill out the Form 2A for the individual and put this into their member service record (I'm sure Eclipse will suggest scanning it to an electronic record file  ;) ).

Do not just present a ribbon and not document it, even if it is an 'automatic award' just for being a member for x-years. Make sure you document it.

You may run into some members who went and purchased one of their own because they 'earned it' per the regulations. It still gets recommended and approved.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 07:03:02 AM »

On a side note - why is it still called the “Red Service Ribbon?”

It made sense when we had them in Red, White, Blue and Silver (or whatever that last one was).  But, why still? Couldn’t it just be “The Service Ribbon” or “The Longevity Ribbon?”


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CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Hawk200
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 10:14:41 AM »

On a side note - why is it still called the “Red Service Ribbon?”

It made sense when we had them in Red, White, Blue and Silver (or whatever that last one was).  But, why still? Couldn’t it just be “The Service Ribbon” or “The Longevity Ribbon?”


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"Old habits die hard?"  :)
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 01:32:24 PM »

"Good Conduct"
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PHall
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 03:26:54 PM »

"Good Conduct"

You can still misbehave and still get a Red Service Ribbon.  >:D

It's more like the CAP equivalent to the Air Force Longevity Service ribbon.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2018, 03:49:27 PM »

At the baseline, the RSR is nothing more then proof you wrote "x" number of checks.

I've argued for years that it's self-actualizing, but I understand that for members with broken
service dates it's more complicated.

At the point I'd be calling out an RSR, CAP, generally would be in a whole different place squared-away-wise.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 02:54:51 PM »

At the baseline, the RSR is nothing more then proof you wrote "x" number of checks.

I've argued for years that it's self-actualizing, but I understand that for members with broken
service dates it's more complicated.

At the point I'd be calling out an RSR, CAP, generally would be in a whole different place squared-away-wise.

And that's the funky thing with service dates where there is a gap...

If you disappear for 10 years, and get reinstated at your last held rank, your eServices profile makes it look at if there was never a service gap. So someone looking at your dates of service may assume, say, 30 years despite only 20 years.

A good Personnel Officer would be able to track that in someone's record and catch it.
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PHall
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 03:16:16 PM »

At the baseline, the RSR is nothing more then proof you wrote "x" number of checks.

I've argued for years that it's self-actualizing, but I understand that for members with broken
service dates it's more complicated.

At the point I'd be calling out an RSR, CAP, generally would be in a whole different place squared-away-wise.

And that's the funky thing with service dates where there is a gap...

If you disappear for 10 years, and get reinstated at your last held rank, your eServices profile makes it look at if there was never a service gap. So someone looking at your dates of service may assume, say, 30 years despite only 20 years.

A good Personnel Officer would be able to track that in someone's record and catch it.

No, if you have a break in service it will show because your Date Last Joined is shown.
And that doesn't change for renewals, only for rejoining after a break in service more then 90 days.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2018, 03:23:30 PM »

At the baseline, the RSR is nothing more then proof you wrote "x" number of checks.

I've argued for years that it's self-actualizing, but I understand that for members with broken
service dates it's more complicated.

At the point I'd be calling out an RSR, CAP, generally would be in a whole different place squared-away-wise.

And that's the funky thing with service dates where there is a gap...

If you disappear for 10 years, and get reinstated at your last held rank, your eServices profile makes it look at if there was never a service gap. So someone looking at your dates of service may assume, say, 30 years despite only 20 years.

A good Personnel Officer would be able to track that in someone's record and catch it.

No, if you have a break in service it will show because your Date Last Joined is shown.
And that doesn't change for renewals, only for rejoining after a break in service more then 90 days.

Hmmm, I'm not seeing that.

We have a member who rejoined a year ago after an extensive gap (I think 10-12 years). His profile says "Joined: dd mmm 1988 ... Rank Date: dd mmm 2003." Then again, I'm not the Personnel Officer or PDO, so I may be missing something.

Anyway, it was just an example.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2018, 04:04:18 PM »

I know of several members who come and go like CAP is a reading club - they qualify
for multiple RSRs, but their service is not unbroken and there's no way eServices will reflect that.
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PHall
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2018, 05:29:45 PM »

I have a 8 year break in service and the Last Join Date in e-Services shows when I rejoined and not when I initially joined as a cadet or when I went to the dark side and became a senior.
So I'm going off of what is in my records that are in e-Services.
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LSThiker
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 05:44:18 PM »

I have a 8 year break in service and the Last Join Date in e-Services shows when I rejoined and not when I initially joined as a cadet or when I went to the dark side and became a senior.
So I'm going off of what is in my records that are in e-Services.

It depends on how NHQ inputs the information.  They are not always consistent due to a number of reasons.

We have two members that have 20-30 year breaks in service:
Member 1:  Joined the unit as a cadet back in the 1980s.  Got C/Amn and left after a year.  Joined a few years ago, NHQ had no available information on him.  He had proof of his membership back in the 80s but did not turn it into NHQ.  His join date shows 2014.

Member 2:  Was a cadet back in the early 80s, earned the Spaatz and left in 1990.  When he joined earlier this year, he sent his Spaatz, Earhart, and Mitchell certificates into NHQ.  NHQ changed his join date as 1983.  Interestingly, his Spaatz has no certificate number, so he shows as number 0. 
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2018, 07:16:42 PM »

I know of several members who come and go like CAP is a reading club - they qualify
for multiple RSRs, but their service is not unbroken and there's no way eServices will reflect that.

Holy jeez, yes.

I know of some who have reinstated 4 times after falling off the roster for not renewing, disappearing for a bit, only to return.

Generally, my giveaway on someone's profile is when I check their training/promotion dates. I may see a join date of 2008 with a Level I completion date of 2018. This is an immediate indicator that someone "left and came back," for whatever reason. The same goes for seeing them as a Senior Member in 2018 but as a Captain in 2012.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2018, 07:41:46 PM »

Well, I just did a reasonably detailed look at my own record, and all I can seem to find is my First Joined date, but not labeled as such. There also used to be a Last Joined Date in the system, which was when I rejoined after a six year lapse. I will continue to look, when I have a bit more time, and see where that date is now located.

My Red Service ribbon is up to date, because I have documentation of all my years of paid membership. I will be providing ths when I apply for my 50 year membership is about a year and a half.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2018, 04:52:53 PM »

Back in the olden days when the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth - even before I was a cadink - there were three CAP service ribbons:


Red Service Ribbon
White Service Ribbon
Blue Service Ribbon


Each ribbon was awarded for a certain number of service hours to CAP.
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2018, 04:59:29 AM »

Back in the olden days when the earth cooled and dinosaurs roamed the earth - even before I was a cadink - there were three CAP service ribbons:


Red Service Ribbon
White Service Ribbon
Blue Service Ribbon


Each ribbon was awarded for a certain number of service hours to CAP.

There were SEVEN service ribbons. But not all were in use at once.

The WWII era service ribbons were Green, Red and Blue. The Red and Blue did not look like the later Red and Blue versions; the award criteria was also different. Therefore, they were entirely different from the later ones and should be counted separately. They were awarded for hours of service. (That’s three ribbons).

Starting in 1949, the service ribbons were Red, White and Blue. They were awarded for combinations of hours and years. The Blue and White lasted until “The Great Ribbon Purge of ‘71.” (That’s three more, total of six).

Then there was the “Silver Service Ribbon,” awarded for 25 years service. It lasted from 1967 to 1971. (And, that’s service Ribbon #7).

The only survivor is the 1949 Red Service Ribbon, which has changed in design, dropping the prop, and in criteria, being based on years and not hours.



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Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
SarDragon
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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2018, 05:45:48 AM »

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Give the man a GOLD STAR!
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Dave Bowles
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The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2018, 02:11:15 PM »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Give the man a GOLD STAR!


And a cold beer!  ;D
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Shawn W.
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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2018, 11:55:56 PM »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Give the man a GOLD STAR!

You don't get gold stars for that ribon... Just bronze triagles and shiny numbers!  >:D
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SarDragon
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2018, 12:20:33 AM »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Give the man a GOLD STAR!
You don't get gold stars for that ribbon... Just bronze triangles and shiny numbers!  >:D

And my next shiny number will be a 50. Suck on that! :P
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Dave Bowles
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PHall
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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 12:56:34 AM »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Give the man a GOLD STAR!
You don't get gold stars for that ribbon... Just bronze triangles and shiny numbers!  >:D

And my next shiny number will be a 50. Suck on that! :P

Just means you're old, old, olde!!!! >:D
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OldGuy
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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2018, 01:15:11 AM »

You don't get gold stars for that ribon... Just bronze triagles and shiny numbers!  >:D
Luvs me them ribons and triagles I does.
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jb512
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2018, 01:41:38 AM »

I have a 8 year break in service and the Last Join Date in e-Services shows when I rejoined and not when I initially joined as a cadet or when I went to the dark side and became a senior.
So I'm going off of what is in my records that are in e-Services.

It depends on how NHQ inputs the information.  They are not always consistent due to a number of reasons.

We have two members that have 20-30 year breaks in service:
Member 1:  Joined the unit as a cadet back in the 1980s.  Got C/Amn and left after a year.  Joined a few years ago, NHQ had no available information on him.  He had proof of his membership back in the 80s but did not turn it into NHQ.  His join date shows 2014.

Member 2:  Was a cadet back in the early 80s, earned the Spaatz and left in 1990.  When he joined earlier this year, he sent his Spaatz, Earhart, and Mitchell certificates into NHQ.  NHQ changed his join date as 1983.  Interestingly, his Spaatz has no certificate number, so he shows as number 0.

I'm kind of in the same situation with a couple of breaks in service:

My join date says 25 May 1993, even though it shows my encampment on 01 Apr 91, orientation flight on 01 Jan 92, and my Mitchell (#0) on 01 Mar 92.

I came back in 2007 and completed level I but had to re-complete it in 2017 after a second break in service, and that is its current date in eServices. I was also reinstated as a 1st Lt but had to start my date of rank over, which prevented me from being eligible for SMSgt since I am making the switch and did not have the time in grade to make Capt first.

I called national to see if they could fix some of the dates and they acted like I was speaking another language... I couldn't begin to put together an accurate Red Service Ribbon at this point.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2018, 03:11:01 AM »


I'm kind of in the same situation with a couple of breaks in service:

My join date says 25 May 1993, even though it shows my encampment on 01 Apr 91, orientation flight on 01 Jan 92, and my Mitchell (#0) on 01 Mar 92.

I came back in 2007 and completed level I but had to re-complete it in 2017 after a second break in service, and that is its current date in eServices. I was also reinstated as a 1st Lt but had to start my date of rank over, which prevented me from being eligible for SMSgt since I am making the switch and did not have the time in grade to make Capt first.

I called national to see if they could fix some of the dates and they acted like I was speaking another language... I couldn't begin to put together an accurate Red Service Ribbon at this point.

Basically, you have to put together any documentation you have that will verify your membership. I'm fortunate enough to have kept olde membership cards, and even canceled membership checks, so I can document every year I have been a member.


As for what "counts" for documentation, anything with your name, date, and CAP on it will work - certificates, 2a's, any kind of orders, training reports, etc. One item per membership year is enough.
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Dave Bowles
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jb512
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2018, 03:28:11 AM »


I'm kind of in the same situation with a couple of breaks in service:

My join date says 25 May 1993, even though it shows my encampment on 01 Apr 91, orientation flight on 01 Jan 92, and my Mitchell (#0) on 01 Mar 92.

I came back in 2007 and completed level I but had to re-complete it in 2017 after a second break in service, and that is its current date in eServices. I was also reinstated as a 1st Lt but had to start my date of rank over, which prevented me from being eligible for SMSgt since I am making the switch and did not have the time in grade to make Capt first.

I called national to see if they could fix some of the dates and they acted like I was speaking another language... I couldn't begin to put together an accurate Red Service Ribbon at this point.

Basically, you have to put together any documentation you have that will verify your membership. I'm fortunate enough to have kept olde membership cards, and even canceled membership checks, so I can document every year I have been a member.


As for what "counts" for documentation, anything with your name, date, and CAP on it will work - certificates, 2a's, any kind of orders, training reports, etc. One item per membership year is enough.

Ah, ok, I see what you're saying. Just based on a date I can prove one year of membership at a minimum since that's what I paid for. I don't have anything from my old cadet days but with those dates from eServices and the fact that I was a C/FO I can at least show a timeline. As for my two terms on the senior side I can pretty much do the same thing.

Thank you for the advice!
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DocJekyll
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2018, 04:33:24 PM »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Give the man a GOLD STAR!
You don't get gold stars for that ribbon... Just bronze triangles and shiny numbers!  >:D

And my next shiny number will be a 50. Suck on that! :P

Good lord... STOP THE CHISELS!
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RiChArD7032
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« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2018, 02:30:41 PM »

I read through most of this thread...and nobody mentioned whether or not I can award the ribbon in eServices.  Maybe you can't and only filling out paperwork will award the ribbon to the cadet? 

Can the Commander view in eServices what ribbons a cadet has been awarded? I'm not referring to achievement ribbons, but others like community service, red service, etc.
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arajca
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« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2018, 02:52:01 PM »

If someone has entered the information, yes. These ribbons are not currently tracked in Eservices unless someone from the unit or the member enters them.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2018, 09:41:45 PM »

Another person cannot put your Red Service Ribbon into eServices. You need to enter it under the Service Ribbons module of your profile. When you enter it, it will go up for Commander approval.

But that's not the same as having the CAPF 2A filled out.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2018, 02:32:28 PM »

Is there a certificate for the Red Service Ribbon?
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2018, 02:36:33 PM »

Is there a certificate for the Red Service Ribbon?

Nothing official that I know of.

Our unit made custom certificates to use in presenting the ribbons.

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Color Guard Rifleman
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« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2018, 03:06:44 PM »

Is there a certificate for the Red Service Ribbon?

Nothing official that I know of.

Our unit made custom certificates to use in presenting the ribbons.

Could you send me that so I may edit it for our squadron?
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C/SMSgt Murphy Killeen, CAP
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2018, 06:58:18 PM »

Is there a certificate for the Red Service Ribbon?

Nothing official that I know of.

Our unit made custom certificates to use in presenting the ribbons.

Could you send me that so I may edit it for our squadron?

I'll see what I can do. I'll have to dig it out from my old files. I know I have it somewhere.

If you want/can, go ahead and PM me a photo of your unit patch. I can attach it instead of our unit's. I tried stealing the one off your Facebook, but if you have a nice, clean PNG or JPEG, that would be better.
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BraveRifles19D
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« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 01:00:22 AM »

According to NY Wing guidelines, the awarding authority for the Red Service Ribbon is the Group Commander. We have to fill out a 2A, have it approved by the squadron commander, who then submits it to the group commander. After it is approved by the the group commander, you can then enter it into eservices under prior service ribbons, and once the squadron commander approves the request, it will show up in eservices.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2018, 01:26:50 AM »

It would be easier to do a Personnel Action letter than to do several 2a's
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Michael P. McEleney
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« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2018, 12:04:12 PM »

I thought it would be easier, but my Group Personnel Officer insisted on individual 2a's. My squadron Personnel Officer also insisted this was never done via a Personnel Action. 

Never mind that I have about 25 years in CAP, and had seen it done before. And done it myself. However since I am no longer in positions where I can influence this...



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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2018, 04:52:24 PM »

According to NY Wing guidelines, the awarding authority for the Red Service Ribbon is the Group Commander. We have to fill out a 2A, have it approved by the squadron commander, who then submits it to the group commander. After it is approved by the the group commander, you can then enter it into eservices under prior service ribbons, and once the squadron commander approves the request, it will show up in eservices.

What's the logic behind that?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2018, 05:56:00 PM »

According to NY Wing guidelines, the awarding authority for the Red Service Ribbon is the Group Commander. We have to fill out a 2A, have it approved by the squadron commander, who then submits it to the group commander. After it is approved by the the group commander, you can then enter it into eservices under prior service ribbons, and once the squadron commander approves the request, it will show up in eservices.

What's the logic behind that?

I would imagine the feeling is it's easier then involving wing, but why it's not delegated down to the unit level, as is
the case with many (most?) wings, is probably as much a "NYWG thing" as anything.

With all a Group CC has to deal with, I can't imagine being bothered or interested in self-actualizing service ribbons
no one would deny.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2018, 03:57:30 AM »

Maybe the Personnel Officer doesn’t like the Group CC, and wants to give him writers cramp.
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Michael P. McEleney
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2018, 06:06:52 PM »

The writer's cramp is a great answer. But when the Personnel Officer and the Group Personnel Officer object, you still have to do the 2a route...

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Red Service Ribbon
 


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