July 11, 2020, 03:00:50 pm

Blue Beret and ABUs

Started by francisderosa16, June 06, 2018, 10:03:05 pm

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francisderosa16

Hello,
Will CAP permit wearing the Blue Beret with the ABUs after Blue Beret Encampment, or is it just during Blue Beret Encampment? The reason I ask this is because of the Uniform Change letter doesn't seem clear to me and also the USAF Security Forces wear a Navy Blue, Blue Beret very similar to the CAP Blue Beret.

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa

Levi Lockling

June 06, 2018, 10:06:53 pm #1 Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 12:31:05 am by Levi Lockling
Verboten as of this moment. You can only wear it with ABUs during National Blue Beret(Which is an NCSA, not an encampment), and with BDU/BBDU uniforms elsewhere.

Until such a time as they change it, you'll need to get BDUs to wear the beret after NBB. That's IF they change it. Anything other than the change letter at this point is speculation and RUMINT.

EDIT: Added clarity

Capt Levi H. Lockling
SSgt, USAF, 1A851J, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

TheSkyHornet

And keep in mind that the Wing or Region has to have an approved supplement to CAPM 39-1 authorizing wear outside of the NBB activity.

Really, if you're at an activity, and everyone else is in a patrol cap, you should be in a patrol cap.

Airplane girl

June 07, 2018, 02:48:42 pm #3 Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 02:57:29 pm by Airplane girl
Sir, I know that CAPM 39-1 is really confusingly worded when it comes to this, but people who have attended NBB are not required to have a wing supplement to wear the beret. Here is the direct quote from CAPM 39-1. A wing supplement is only required if they have not attended NBB.

" Navy blue. May be worn by National Blue Beret graduates or by other members whenspecifically authorized by wing or region supplement or additional NHQ directive. May only be worn with the BDU or Blue Field Uniform. Position headband straight across the forehead, one inch above the eyebrows. Drape the top over the right ear and the stiffener. Adjust ribbon for comfort, tie in a knot, and tuck inside or cut-off. Appropriate flight cap device will be worn unless worn due to Blue Beret attendance, in which case the member will wear the Blue Beret, beret device."

Although I do agree, if you're attending a wing activity or something like that, sometimes it is best to just wear a Patrol cap.


abdsp51

Quote from: Airplane girl on June 07, 2018, 02:48:42 pm
Sir, I know that CAPM 39-1 is really confusingly worded when it comes to this, but people who have attended NBB are not required to have a wing supplement to wear the beret. Here is the direct quote from CAPM 39-1. A wing supplement is only required if they have not attended NBB.

" Navy blue. May be worn by National Blue Beret graduates or by other members whenspecifically authorized by wing or region supplement or additional NHQ directive. May only be worn with the BDU or Blue Field Uniform. Position headband straight across the forehead, one inch above the eyebrows. Drape the top over the right ear and the stiffener. Adjust ribbon for comfort, tie in a knot, and tuck inside or cut-off. Appropriate flight cap device will be worn unless worn due to Blue Beret attendance, in which case the member will wear the Blue Beret, beret device."

Although I do agree, if you're attending a wing activity or something like that, sometimes it is best to just wear a Patrol cap.


Cadet the Blue Beret is not authorized for ABUs and CC's and activity directors have the final say on uniforns for their AOR.

Airplane girl

I'm aware that it is not authorized in ABUs, I just wanted to make it clear that it's not necessary to have a wing supplement to wear the blue beret with BDUs at Squadron meetings if someone has attended NBB

jeders

Quote from: francisderosa16 on June 06, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Hello,
Will CAP permit wearing the Blue Beret with the ABUs after Blue Beret Encampment, or is it just during Blue Beret Encampment? The reason I ask this is because of the Uniform Change letter doesn't seem clear to me and also the USAF Security Forces wear a Navy Blue, Blue Beret very similar to the CAP Blue Beret.

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa


First, congratulations on being accepted to attend NBB this year.

Next, as of right now, you may only wear the beret at NBB if you elect to wear ABUs. If you elect to wear BDUs during the transition phase you may wear the beret with that uniform outside of NBB; no further supplement/approval is required, though local commanders and activity directors can restrict its wear.

Lastly, if you do elect to wear the beret with the BDUs outside of NBB, be aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions. We are a tight knit family and will not tolerate those who bring discredit to the uniform or the beret (or more specifically the St. Albans Cross).

And again, congratulations; I look forward to working with you and all the other participants.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

J2H

Security Forces is authorized to wear berets with ABUs because berets are authorized for AD members to wear with ABUs.
SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
#217169

abdsp51

Quote from: J2H on June 07, 2018, 07:08:24 pm
Security Forces is authorized to wear berets with ABUs because berets are authorized for AD members to wear with ABUs.


And how is that pertinent to the topic?

Eclipse

More importantly, what about OCPs?!



shuman14

Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: National Patron 2013 - 2014, SMWOG 2020 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Fubar

Quote from: jeders on June 07, 2018, 05:52:09 pmbe aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions.


Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit creepy there will be a hat watching his every move?


TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Airplane girl on June 07, 2018, 02:48:42 pm
Sir, I know that CAPM 39-1 is really confusingly worded when it comes to this, but people who have attended NBB are not required to have a wing supplement to wear the beret. Here is the direct quote from CAPM 39-1. A wing supplement is only required if they have not attended NBB.

" Navy blue. May be worn by National Blue Beret graduates or by other members whenspecifically authorized by wing or region supplement or additional NHQ directive. May only be worn with the BDU or Blue Field Uniform. Position headband straight across the forehead, one inch above the eyebrows. Drape the top over the right ear and the stiffener. Adjust ribbon for comfort, tie in a knot, and tuck inside or cut-off. Appropriate flight cap device will be worn unless worn due to Blue Beret attendance, in which case the member will wear the Blue Beret, beret device."

Although I do agree, if you're attending a wing activity or something like that, sometimes it is best to just wear a Patrol cap.


Corrected and noted.


Mitchell 1969

June 09, 2018, 02:29:26 am #13 Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 07:05:50 am by Mitchell 1969
Quote from: jeders on June 07, 2018, 05:52:09 pm
Quote from: francisderosa16 on June 06, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Hello,
Will CAP permit wearing the Blue Beret with the ABUs after Blue Beret Encampment, or is it just during Blue Beret Encampment? The reason I ask this is because of the Uniform Change letter doesn't seem clear to me and also the USAF Security Forces wear a Navy Blue, Blue Beret very similar to the CAP Blue Beret.

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa


First, congratulations on being accepted to attend NBB this year.

Next, as of right now, you may only wear the beret at NBB if you elect to wear ABUs. If you elect to wear BDUs during the transition phase you may wear the beret with that uniform outside of NBB; no further supplement/approval is required, though local commanders and activity directors can restrict its wear.

Lastly, if you do elect to wear the beret with the BDUs outside of NBB, be aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions. We are a tight knit family and will not tolerate those who bring discredit to the uniform or the beret (or more specifically the St. Albans Cross).

And again, congratulations; I look forward to working with you and all the other participants.


What does this even mean?

"Berets" are head coverings, not people. And, when did wearers of said head coverings get appointed to "...watch[ing] you and your actions?"  And, what do they plan to do if they "...will not tolerate those who bring discredit...?"

They attended an activity and were given permission to wear a hat. They weren't appointed to some mystical order of Illuminati and empowered to protect "the sacred hat."

Geez. Cult much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

ColonelJack

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 09, 2018, 02:29:26 am

They attended an activity and were given permission to wear a hat. They weren't appointed to some mystical order of Illuminati and empowered to protect "the sacred hat."



A silly French hat.  (Fixed that for you.)

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Trenzalorian

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 09, 2018, 02:29:26 am
Quote from: jeders on June 07, 2018, 05:52:09 pm
Quote from: francisderosa16 on June 06, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Hello,
Will CAP permit wearing the Blue Beret with the ABUs after Blue Beret Encampment, or is it just during Blue Beret Encampment? The reason I ask this is because of the Uniform Change letter doesn't seem clear to me and also the USAF Security Forces wear a Navy Blue, Blue Beret very similar to the CAP Blue Beret.

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa


First, congratulations on being accepted to attend NBB this year.

Next, as of right now, you may only wear the beret at NBB if you elect to wear ABUs. If you elect to wear BDUs during the transition phase you may wear the beret with that uniform outside of NBB; no further supplement/approval is required, though local commanders and activity directors can restrict its wear.

Lastly, if you do elect to wear the beret with the BDUs outside of NBB, be aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions. We are a tight knit family and will not tolerate those who bring discredit to the uniform or the beret (or more specifically the St. Albans Cross).

And again, congratulations; I look forward to working with you and all the other participants.


What does this even mean?

"Berets" are head coverings, not people. And, when did wearers of said head coverings get appointed to "...watch[ing] you and your actions?"  And, what do they plan to do if they "...will not tolerate those who bring discredit...?"

They attended an activity and were given permission to wear a hat. They weren't appointed to some mystical order of Illuminati and empowered to protect "the sacred hat."

Geez. Cult much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Geez, sir.

"Beret" is a simple term to refer to a cadet that graduated from National Blue Beret. Efficiency in communication is a key leadership skill.

And all Cadets and Officers that attend do join the Order of St. Alban, a society of people that have attended the Activity and adhere to a set of values augmenting those of CAP.

Yes, there is plenty of kool-aid dispensed, but come on, please lighten up. This is CAP, not the actual military.
Eaker #3363
NYWG Encampment Cadet Commander 2018
NYWG Encampment '13, '14, '15, '18, '19
NYWG NCO of the Year 2015
NERCLS Winter 16/17
NBB '16, Oscar Operators!

arajca

Quote from: Trenzalorian on June 10, 2018, 02:26:13 am
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 09, 2018, 02:29:26 am
Quote from: jeders on June 07, 2018, 05:52:09 pm
Quote from: francisderosa16 on June 06, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Hello,
Will CAP permit wearing the Blue Beret with the ABUs after Blue Beret Encampment, or is it just during Blue Beret Encampment? The reason I ask this is because of the Uniform Change letter doesn't seem clear to me and also the USAF Security Forces wear a Navy Blue, Blue Beret very similar to the CAP Blue Beret.

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa


First, congratulations on being accepted to attend NBB this year.

Next, as of right now, you may only wear the beret at NBB if you elect to wear ABUs. If you elect to wear BDUs during the transition phase you may wear the beret with that uniform outside of NBB; no further supplement/approval is required, though local commanders and activity directors can restrict its wear.

Lastly, if you do elect to wear the beret with the BDUs outside of NBB, be aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions. We are a tight knit family and will not tolerate those who bring discredit to the uniform or the beret (or more specifically the St. Albans Cross).

And again, congratulations; I look forward to working with you and all the other participants.


What does this even mean?

"Berets" are head coverings, not people. And, when did wearers of said head coverings get appointed to "...watch[ing] you and your actions?"  And, what do they plan to do if they "...will not tolerate those who bring discredit...?"

They attended an activity and were given permission to wear a hat. They weren't appointed to some mystical order of Illuminati and empowered to protect "the sacred hat."

Geez. Cult much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Geez, sir.

"Beret" is a simple term to refer to a cadet that graduated from National Blue Beret. Efficiency in communication is a key leadership skill.
So is clarity in communication, which is far more important than efficiency.

QuoteAnd all Cadets and Officers that attend do join the Order of St. Alban, a society of people that have attended the Activity and adhere to a set of values augmenting those of CAP.
And this is why many of us have a not-so-high opinion of NBB graduates. You claim to be special, and in many cases, cause issues with your French hat.

QuoteYes, there is plenty of kool-aid dispensed, but come on, please lighten up. This is CAP, not the actual military.
Quit drinking the kool-aid.

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Trenzalorian on June 10, 2018, 02:26:13 am
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 09, 2018, 02:29:26 am
Quote from: jeders on June 07, 2018, 05:52:09 pm
Quote from: francisderosa16 on June 06, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Hello,
Will CAP permit wearing the Blue Beret with the ABUs after Blue Beret Encampment, or is it just during Blue Beret Encampment? The reason I ask this is because of the Uniform Change letter doesn't seem clear to me and also the USAF Security Forces wear a Navy Blue, Blue Beret very similar to the CAP Blue Beret.

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa


First, congratulations on being accepted to attend NBB this year.

Next, as of right now, you may only wear the beret at NBB if you elect to wear ABUs. If you elect to wear BDUs during the transition phase you may wear the beret with that uniform outside of NBB; no further supplement/approval is required, though local commanders and activity directors can restrict its wear.

Lastly, if you do elect to wear the beret with the BDUs outside of NBB, be aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions. We are a tight knit family and will not tolerate those who bring discredit to the uniform or the beret (or more specifically the St. Albans Cross).

And again, congratulations; I look forward to working with you and all the other participants.


What does this even mean?

"Berets" are head coverings, not people. And, when did wearers of said head coverings get appointed to "...watch[ing] you and your actions?"  And, what do they plan to do if they "...will not tolerate those who bring discredit...?"

They attended an activity and were given permission to wear a hat. They weren't appointed to some mystical order of Illuminati and empowered to protect "the sacred hat."

Geez. Cult much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Geez, sir.

"Beret" is a simple term to refer to a cadet that graduated from National Blue Beret. Efficiency in communication is a key leadership skill.

And all Cadets and Officers that attend do join the Order of St. Alban, a society of people that have attended the Activity and adhere to a set of values augmenting those of CAP.

Yes, there is plenty of kool-aid dispensed, but come on, please lighten up. This is CAP, not the actual military.


You're helping me make my points. Thank you.

If "Beret is a simple term used to refer to a cadet that graduated from National Blue Beret" (Which, as stated in the title is "National," then can you refer me to the CAPM, CAPR, CAPP or letter, memo, sticky note or gum wrapper that actually says that? Wouldn't "Energy in communications..." being such a "...key leadership skill" demand such a thing in order to make such designation universally understood within the organization?

Same questions and comments go toward the "Society of St. Alban," which sounds like a made-up thing with no official reference to purpose, need or even its very existence, other than to separate beanie wearers from the rest of CAP. 




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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

jeders

Quote from: Fubar on June 08, 2018, 03:59:53 am
Quote from: jeders on June 07, 2018, 05:52:09 pmbe aware that there are many berets out there watching you and your actions.


Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit creepy there will be a hat watching his every move?




"That's just funny right there, I don't care who you are."

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 09, 2018, 02:29:26 am

"Berets" are head coverings


True; beret is also a term used to describe those who have earned or wear a beret. This is not unique to CAP or NBB.

QuoteAnd, when did wearers of said head coverings get appointed to "...watch[ing] you and your actions?"


It is the responsibility of every CAP member to enforce the standards of the organization, which requires keeping a watchful eye. NCSA participants are not relieved of this duty.

QuoteAnd, what do they plan to do if they "...will not tolerate those who bring discredit...?"


Both cadets and seniors have had activity credit revoked and their beret and St Albans pin taken away both at the activity and after it.

QuoteThey attended an activity and were given permission to wear a hat. They weren't appointed to some mystical order of Illuminati and empowered to protect "the sacred hat."


No one is protecting the hat. As we teach cadets and seniors who attend; the person makes the hat, the hat does not make the person.

QuoteGeez. Cult much?


Geez. Jealous much?

If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

TheSkyHornet

Guys, this is a measuring contest over aircraft parking...

Take a breather.