June 06, 2020, 10:40:15 am

Active Shooter Training revisited

Started by Live2Learn, March 13, 2018, 04:43:18 pm

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Brit_in_CAP

Quote from: Cicero on March 14, 2018, 02:45:07 am
One comment I heard was that the handout was objectionable. Have yet to see same, so withholding judgment.

That was version 1...youth-appropriate version was rapidly issued.  The original referred to using alcoholic beverages, among other things.

FWIW: I presented the material as the monthly CD, alongside safety and it was very well received by the cadets.

For the most part, they agreed with Eclipse: The "Counter" or "fight" is primarily intended for adults, but if hiding
or running isn't an option, they'd throw a desk, or anything else they can grab.  They all agreed, without prompting, that being backed into the store cupboard or similar was a very bad option.

Chappie

Indeed one handout by a reputable source was more adult orientated than youth orientated.  It was "recalled" for that reason.

On another note, the Chaplain Corps was tasked the day following this tragic event by the National Commander to put together this session for our cadets.  Normally, lesson material takes a while to develop.  This lesson, in a quick response to the tasking by Maj Gen Mark Smith, was in the field in less than 2 weeks.   
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

ol'fido

Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Live2Learn

Quote from: ol'fido on March 20, 2018, 04:06:40 pm
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality


It's the media "echo chamber effect" https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/dec/04/echo-chambers-are-dangerous-we-must-try-to-break-free-of-our-online-bubbles.  Some call it the barnyard chicken peckin' effect...  For the urbanites among us, chickens will start pecking on an unlucky victim until it finally succumbs to the negative attention.  Other folks just say "I know what I know, please don't confuse me with the data".  :o

Fester

Quote from: ol'fido on March 20, 2018, 04:06:40 pm
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality


There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....

The author of this article may be accurate, but that's because he's narrowed the telescope so much that the VAST majority of school shootings don't fit within his sample.

A quick calculation of the list of ALL school shootings by decade, I see that the 90's had 62 school shootings, the 00's had 63 and the 10's have had (so far, with 21 months still remaining in the decade) 149. 
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

Fester

And, by the way.... Sandy Hook wouldn't be included in the author's sample because there were less than 4 injuries.  Even though there were 28 deaths.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

LSThiker

Quote from: Fester on March 21, 2018, 01:56:39 am
There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....

The author of this article may be accurate, but that's because he's narrowed the telescope so much that the VAST majority of school shootings don't fit within his sample.

A quick calculation of the list of ALL school shootings by decade, I see that the 90's had 62 school shootings, the 00's had 63 and the 10's have had (so far, with 21 months still remaining in the decade) 149.


Unfortunately, this is an issue in studying gun violence.  What constitutes a school shooting.  There are no official definitions of a school shooting.  Some sources, especially the ones that cite high school shooting numbers, have a definition of any shooting on school ground.  For example, they include a suicide on school ground at 1 am as a school shooting.  Another is a clear gang violence shooting in a school known for gang violence.  More strict definitions use the at least 4 dead (not including the shooter) definition.

Thus, yes the author of the previous uses a strict definition to fit his political bias, other groups use a rather broad definition in order to fit their political bias.  So, everyone is correct "from a certain point of view".

Please see this reference, which I think present a rather fair and unbiased look at the definitions, the many of them:
http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2018/feb/28/how-are-school-shootings-defined/

EMT-83

Quote from: Fester on March 21, 2018, 01:56:39 am

There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....



No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.

abdsp51

March 22, 2018, 11:04:47 am #28 Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:16:14 pm by SarDragon
Quote from: EMT-83 on March 22, 2018, 10:37:04 am
Quote from: Fester on March 21, 2018, 01:56:39 am

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.


It also doesn't advance certain ideologies and agendas.  Inflated numbers go farther and add more meat for Anti-Constitution attacks.

JayT

Quote from: EMT-83 on March 22, 2018, 10:37:04 am
Quote from: Fester on March 21, 2018, 01:56:39 am

There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....



No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.


Now who's messing with the numbers for their own gain?

Grow up.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

jeders

Can we get a lock on this before it descends into ad hominem attacks a la Twitfaceagram, please?
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

LSThiker

Quote from: jeders on March 22, 2018, 02:42:07 pm
Can we get a lock on this before it descends into ad hominem attacks a la Twitfaceagram, please?


"Grow up" ~Twitfacegram

>:D

Agreed

EMT-83

Quote from: JayT on March 22, 2018, 02:05:03 pm
Quote from: EMT-83 on March 22, 2018, 10:37:04 am
Quote from: Fester on March 21, 2018, 01:56:39 am

There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....



No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.


Now who's messing with the numbers for their own gain?

Grow up.


On a daily basis: Dan Malloy. Elizabeth Esty, Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy to name a few. And those are just the Connecticut Democrats.

sarmed1

I would say the number of shootings doesnt matter.  If you are the one being shot at, it doesnt matter where you are, (we can exclude the suicide example) the principles remain the same.  Run, Hide, Fight it is a pretty simple version.  There is a video you can download.  Its free.  There are also formal classes that can be put on (mostly by Law Enforcement... CRASE)

The reality (sad?) is that it is a risk that we all face, and CAP meetings and activities are no different.  It doesnt matter your political view on the why ([darn] millennial's) or the how (AR-15's are evil); keep those parts out of the discussion on focus on what to do when/if it happens.  My personal opinion is that every activity should have a FOUO type of evacuation and re-unification plan in the event of an incident, and that every participant should know the R.H.F. type of plan just as much as they know the fire alarm plan and the tornado plan or earthquake plan.

MK   
Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR

Live2Learn

Quote from: sarmed1 on March 22, 2018, 04:22:31 pm
I would say the number of shootings doesnt matter.  If you are the one being shot at, it doesnt matter where you are, (we can exclude the suicide example) the principles remain the same.  Run, Hide, Fight it is a pretty simple version.  There is a video you can download.  Its free.  There are also formal classes that can be put on (mostly by Law Enforcement... CRASE)

The reality (sad?) is that it is a risk that we all face, and CAP meetings and activities are no different.  It doesnt matter your political view on the why ([darn] millennial's) or the how (AR-15's are evil); keep those parts out of the discussion on focus on what to do when/if it happens.  My personal opinion is that every activity should have a FOUO type of evacuation and re-unification plan in the event of an incident, and that every participant should know the R.H.F. type of plan just as much as they know the fire alarm plan and the tornado plan or earthquake plan.

MK


Agree.   

We might also remember that violent events at schools are really in the minority... while school related events have great shock value that attracts attention and enhances readership, 2/3 or more of active shooter events occur in other settings.  Any 'soft' target for violence... i.e. unprotected by limited access and/or guards ... could benefit from some prior "what if" thinking and planning.  We should also remember that bombs remain a weapon of choice for some evil doers.  And that swords, knives, and other weapons are used to attack individuals or groups of people.

Eclipse

March 22, 2018, 05:04:47 pm #35 Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 05:12:12 pm by Eclipse
^ Which is why you don't increase or change specific plans or expectations in reaction to any one event or incident.

Governments have limited resources, but more importantly limited reach and power, while at the same time
the general public has a literally infinite amount of time and resources to find weaknesses and new exciting ways
to do bad things.

Anything reasonable, which doesn't infringe on rights or come with an expectation of behavioral change
by the general public, should be done immediately, but when you start using specific incidents to justify
government expenditure, legislation, or having to tell people "no", then you have to approach it in rational,
fact-based ways that remove emotion and feelings from the discussions.

Otherwise you risk wasting a lot of time to no result, while the "real problem", whatever that actually is,
continues to exist.

If you die in a plane crash, you proved to be statistically 100% vulnerable to airline safety, however that doesn't
change that air travel as a whole is at historical lows, any more then the first autonomous vehicle fatality
means that autonomous cars are inherently unsafe, either.

Parkand saw someone who was essentially a "peer" use the school's safety systems against the very
people they were meant to protect.  You can't shelter in place at the same time a fire alarm is going off,
right? Or do you?  That's probably a more important topic to figure out then some of the other, louder
things in the news.

What about emergency exits?  Should every classroom in the US be required to have an exterior door exit?
As it stands today, everyone is basically locked in with the bad actors.
Again, probably more important in just about every incident then metal detectors and
security glass, at least once bad things have started.

"Advocates" do not generally like math when math doesn't agree with their advocacy, but that doesn't change the
math.

It's impossible to be prepared for "everything" (ORM actually teaches that as a core principle), you can only be
informed, live with your head on a swivel, and not ignore the warning signs which inevitably have been
pre-cursors of nearly all of these incidents.



Fester

Quote from: EMT-83 on March 22, 2018, 10:37:04 am
Quote from: Fester on March 21, 2018, 01:56:39 am

There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....



No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.


4.  Right.

1/20 - 1 killed on campus of Wake Forest.
1/22 - 1 injured on campus of Italy High School.
1/22 - 1 injured.  Shots were fired from a truck in the parking lot of NET Charter High School, targeting a crowd of students during lunch time. One student was slightly injured, apparently from injuries unrelated to gunfire. One person was arrested in connection with the shooting.
1/23 - 2 killed, 18 injured at Marshall County High School when 15 year old opened fire during school hours.
2/1 - 5 injured when 12 year old girl negligently discharged a firearm.
2/5 - 1 injured when a student at Oxon Hill High School was shot in the parking lot.
2/14 - Parkland.
3/2 - CMU shooting (questionable according to your definition.)
3/7 - 1 killed, 2 injured at Huffman HS in Birmingham, AL when a gun was discharged in the school building during school hours.
3/14 - 2 killed, 1 injured at University of Alabama at Birmingham.
3/20 - 1 killed, 2 injured at Great Mills HS in Maryland.

Which of these 11 are the 7 you don't consider "school shootings," EMT-83?

1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

SarDragon

Measurement noted and completed.

Stick a fork in it, it's done.

Click.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret