Started by kcebnaes, January 09, 2017, 02:00:15 am
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Quote from: Toad1168 on August 23, 2017, 07:49:07 pmOr for those former cadets who enlist active duty after high school but want to remain in CAP. I've rarely seen it outside of that.
Quote from: TIger on August 24, 2017, 10:03:47 pmThe biggest advantage is that you cannot be a commander as an NCO. I would guess that they don't even ask.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: NIN on August 24, 2017, 11:26:12 pmQuote from: TIger on August 24, 2017, 10:03:47 pmThe biggest advantage is that you cannot be a commander as an NCO. I would guess that they don't even ask.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProDid you not see the part above where this was proven not to be true? Why do people keep repeating this?
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2017, 02:00:15 amOr when the commander says to be a commander when you can't be a commander so command.
Quote from: Jester on August 25, 2017, 02:40:35 amI just saw the National Commander's brief on capmembers today that explicitly says commandering isn't authorized. I doubt it will cease, but as of 11 August that's the word.
Quote from: Ned on August 23, 2017, 10:22:55 pmIt is again worth remembering that we have had NCOs since WWII.
Quote from: Fubar on August 24, 2017, 04:58:13 pmThe only flight officers I've seen are 18 and 19 year olds who no longer want the requirements of the cadet program but want to remain active with the cadet program. So they switch to flight officer, still participate in the cadet program but no longer worry about aerospace and leadership tests and whatnot. For one unit the kid served as the defacto cadet commander but was an assistant deputy to the commander on paper.
Quote from: Adam B on August 25, 2017, 01:54:54 pmThe other side of the coin is the squadron pressuring cadets into becoming FOs. I knew a C/Capt, who at 18 or 19, was told that if she really cared about her squadron, she'd become a SM. She did, missing out on another 2-3 more years of cadet opportunities, and most of Phase IV.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on August 25, 2017, 05:54:29 amQuote from: Ned on August 23, 2017, 10:22:55 pmIt is again worth remembering that we have had NCOs since WWII. Ned, you keep saying that, so I will point out, as I oft times do, that the claim is not completely accurate.
Quote from: Ned on August 23, 2017, 10:22:55 pmWhile I appreciate the historical perspective you provide, I must disagree and suggest that my statement is accurate as written. While it is never wrong to use the word "since" to imply continuity between two points in time, it is not required. The word "since" does not necessarily require "continuousness"; as in "Ned used to think X, but has since changed his mind". Or "the cadet program has had a lot of changes since WWII."Restated, it can have the sense of "then and now."
Quote from: Ned on August 23, 2017, 10:22:55 pmBut semantics aside, the larger point remains: we have had productive NCOs for the great majority of our proud 75 year history. They have actively contributed to the mission. And I would suspect that even you would agree they are nothing new.And we may well further agree that we may never attract the thousands of NCOs that I would like to see. B But I am grateful for every one of the dozens that do serve. Every one is a potential CP resource of inesti mable value.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on August 25, 2017, 06:21:04 pm[. . .]And, given that there is so very little difference between what CAP NCOs do, or can do, and what CAP non-NCOs do, or can do, that's why so many members just don't see the NCO program as much more than something tailor fit to a narrow audience for personal preference reasons.
QuoteThe only things I'm asking are that the reality of the "non-NCO years" not be forgotten and that the success of those years not be glossed over, but given due consideration during discussions.
Quote from: Ned on August 26, 2017, 01:33:46 amMy position is that -in CP at least- NCOs can indeed do at least one thing that officers cannot. And that is to model effective NCO leadership styles. As a former serviceman, I hope that you would agree that military NCOs lead with different techniques and styles than officers. I grant you that most cadets never see a CAP NCO and turn out just fine, but since every cadet has to serve effectively as a cadet NCO, it can help to have role models, mentors, and trainers that are successful NCOs.It's just a bonus that under our current system that NCOs come to us pre-trained and experienced as small unit leaders. And are generally skilled in small unit administrative and support duties.Again, we obviously have a successful program without a significant number of NCOs. But we could be much, much better if we had more.
Quote from: kwe1009 on August 26, 2017, 01:45:35 amUnfortunately not all NCO have the leadership training that so many people on here state.
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