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KaminskiMichael
Newbie

Posts: 1

« on: June 11, 2016, 02:39:22 AM »

Hello. I just joined CAP and need to buy a pair of black boots. I'm not sure what to buy as there are so many. I live in CT ,if that helps anyone reply to this. I know I want boots that are polish able to something half decent.And I would prefer if they were not as expensive. Any suggestions?
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etodd
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Posts: 1,804

« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 02:41:55 AM »

Might get more answers if you move this to the Uniform forum.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2016, 03:19:33 AM »

Your best bet is a pair of relatively inexpensive tactical style boots from your local Walmart.

Get something comfortable and that fits the need. IN a year you will have either

outgrown them

used them up and will have a better idea of the actual need and your comfort

have rarely worn them and are glad you saved your money
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Spam
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Unit: GA-001

« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2016, 04:40:33 AM »

Recommend that you check with your own unit Commander first before purchasing.
Most units will be able to steer you to a good local source for boots.


What you don't want to do is buy something expensive when your local unit might have a better source, OR buy something that they won't approve you to wear. For example, Eclipse might accept any of those civilian boots from Walmart in his unit, but I wouldn't, because we can get decent cheap combat boots near us for 35 bucks.


Best wishes,
Spam


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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2016, 05:26:51 AM »

buy something that they won't approve you to wear. For example, Eclipse might accept any of those civilian boots from Walmart in his unit, but I wouldn't,

Cite please.  Where would the authority to "not approve" a pair of boots that meets the spec?
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Holding Pattern
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Unit: Worry

« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 06:23:59 AM »

buy something that they won't approve you to wear. For example, Eclipse might accept any of those civilian boots from Walmart in his unit, but I wouldn't,

Cite please.  Where would the authority to "not approve" a pair of boots that meets the spec?

If a commander believes the boots aren't in spec, they aren't in spec until proven otherwise.

39-1 Para 6.4.1.4. says:

Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.

If the commander deems combat boots to be any boot that has seen combat, walmart boots might not qualify.

Or is there a more specific definition of combat boot that encompasses all boots?
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Spam
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Unit: GA-001

« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2016, 11:31:39 AM »

I hope we're not getting in another Johnson-measuring competition here; I allow that other commanders can do as they see fit, and would appreciate the same consideration (I could ask you to cite the source of your information that the OP will grow out of his boots in a year - you are assuming he is a young cadet, aren't you).


Where some units are based in isolated areas and don't have access, or where financial considerations or a lack of any ES focus in the unit prevail, I could see members being forced to buy cheap Walmart boots. For example, the cheapest "tactical boot' they offer online is: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Interceptor-Men-s-Force-Steel-Toe-8-Tactical-Boot/34517951. It is made of a non leather synthetic, which does not meet DoD combat boot standards. The same is true of the other "combat boot style" boots there (e.g. the "Alpine Swiss" boots, which also have white stitching and canvas panels.


The requirements chain is as follows. PEO(Soldier) and Natick (the joint service uniform development office/engineering center, respectively) do not have a certification process for boots. AR 670-1 and ALARACT messages provide guidance on what approved standards industry uses to manufacture boots that are authorized for wear. The SMA issued guidance in 2014 calling attention to ALARACT Message 140/2007 prohibiting boots with:  other than cattle leather, other than rubber and polyether polyurethane soles, other than an all leather or a leather/NON-mesh fabric, and no metal or plastic cleats in the bottom of the soles or sewn-in or laced-in zippers or velcro inserts.  So, the quick sample of Walmart boots offered online appear to be noncompliant.


For my unit, which deploys eight officer and cadet GTLs and a number of qualified GTMs, we hold to the standard, especially considering the local availability of compliant boots.  Eclipse, I'm not challenging your decision to accept Walmart boots, but I'm holding to what I believe is the definition of an authorized combat boot, having seen the cheap boots literally fall apart in the field, with welts coming undone and heels coming off ten miles up a slope.  The bottom line for our original poster should be, I believe, that he should check with his own local unit to make sure of HIS commanders position on this.


V/R
Spam

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THRAWN
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 01:24:16 PM »

Are you a senior or cadet?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2016, 03:38:30 PM »

CAPM 39-1, Page 92-93 is the definition of "boots" as far as CAP is concerned:


6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish.
The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot.


6.4.4.3. Boots: Plain black commercial design without ornamentation such as buckles or
straps; sole will not exceed ˝ inch in thickness and shoe heels will not exceed one inch
(measured from
the inside front of the heel). Highly polished, high gloss, or patent leather.


If they meet the bold above they are compliant, regardless of vendor.

Spam, what you are quoting is relevent in a GSA procurement discussion, not what CAP members can wear with their uniforms.
CCs are always free to recommend "x" to their members, that's their job, but to imply that there are
specifications outside the regulations, or that units, absent a properly approved OI, can decide what it "compliant" is
beyond their authority.

This is no different then deciding Tru-Spec is approved, and Propper isn't, etc.
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