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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 880
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2015, 08:21:10 AM »

I'm not starting an argument. Far from it. I'm just looking at the reality of the problem.

My point is that you have a very incomplete understanding of what's involved in making this happen. If it was simple, it would already be in place. I don't have any better answer for my questions than you do, nor do most others. They are hard questions, and implementation will be neither easy nor cheap. We're likely talking tens of thousands of dollars. Whose budget is that going to come out of, if some plan is actually implemented?

It's easier than it seems. It's cheaper than it seems. If USAF wanted it, it would happen. It hasn't happened, so...

Sir its not that simple.  and since we are talking at the min AF wide not that cheap.

But, it is simple. If you climb out of the box.

Difficult = realizing that the square peg doesn't fit into the round hole, then trying to design an octagonal peg that will fit the round hole.

Simple = doing a slight shaving of the square peg while also slightly widening the circumference of the hole. Eventually, you'll get a hole that can accommodate either peg without compromising the original round peg.

FWIW - I'VE DONE IT. I still do it. And I get paid handsomely to do it, as I busily go about saving entities money.

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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
abdsp51
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Posts: 2,622
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« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2015, 01:24:16 PM »

But, it is simple. If you climb out of the box.

Difficult = realizing that the square peg doesn't fit into the round hole, then trying to design an octagonal peg that will fit the round hole.

Simple = doing a slight shaving of the square peg while also slightly widening the circumference of the hole. Eventually, you'll get a hole that can accommodate either peg without compromising the original round peg.

FWIW - I'VE DONE IT. I still do it. And I get paid handsomely to do it, as I busily go about saving entities money.

Who's going to foot that bill?  These days that money can go to much more important and mission focused areas. 
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Holding Pattern
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Unit: Worry

« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2015, 01:31:50 PM »

But, it is simple. If you climb out of the box.

Difficult = realizing that the square peg doesn't fit into the round hole, then trying to design an octagonal peg that will fit the round hole.

Simple = doing a slight shaving of the square peg while also slightly widening the circumference of the hole. Eventually, you'll get a hole that can accommodate either peg without compromising the original round peg.

FWIW - I'VE DONE IT. I still do it. And I get paid handsomely to do it, as I busily go about saving entities money.

Who's going to foot that bill?  These days that money can go to much more important and mission focused areas.

Tell a CAP member that for an extra $20 he can get a smartcard that will facilitate base access and eservices logon?

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
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abdsp51
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« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2015, 02:12:45 PM »

Tell a CAP member that for an extra $20 he can get a smartcard that will facilitate base access and eservices logon?

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

You gonna write the software update, shell the 20 bucks for a compliant reader and possibly the software?
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2015, 02:38:24 PM »

Assuming cap - USAF actually interested, and they will assist with the appropriation of money in developers on the software server side. I already have a complaint reader and software.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2015, 02:50:04 PM »

Assuming cap - USAF actually interested, and they will assist with the appropriation of money in developers on the software server side. I already have a complaint reader and software.

And your assuming that CAP-USAF is willing to foot the 24k plus bill for it all.
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railpig314
Recruit

Posts: 9

« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2015, 09:20:27 PM »

Hey,
Just wanted to put my own two cents in. Slim and I know the same SF NCO. He is a current member of CAP. I talk to him frequently. CAP members cause all kinds of problems at the base. Giving them another ID is going to empower them to to think they have access to things they don't. I agree with the notion that we are treated like second class citizens by "big blue". We still have to realize that we are nothing more then a volunteer club. It even hurts me to say that. The bottom line is that someone is going to have to pay and we are still under sequester. Asking any CAP member to pay anything more is really unacceptable!

And why would anyone want to change our MAJCOM? That makes no sense at all! A move to ACC for what? I really don't understand that one at all. AETC is the only one that makes any sense for CAP......

Again just my opinion!
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JeffDG
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« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2015, 09:32:18 PM »

Assuming cap - USAF actually interested, and they will assist with the appropriation of money in developers on the software server side. I already have a complaint reader and software.

Yeah...it'll be as good as WMIRS 2.0.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,689

« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2015, 09:36:28 PM »


And why would anyone want to change our MAJCOM? That makes no sense at all! A move to ACC for what? I really don't understand that one at all. AETC is the only one that makes any sense for CAP......

Again just my opinion!
Really?  When operationally our ES missions belong to ACC?
The move to ACC is not for CAP's sake but for the USAF's convenience.  When ACC wants to use us for missions outside our normal ES routine....It is a pain the FPOC to get the money moved from one MAJCOM to another.   This way COMACC says get it done...and it gets done....and they can move the money later.    Now....nothing can happen until the money get's moved.

I know of several possible USAF support missions that got dropped because there was not enough lead time to get the money taken care of.   
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
railpig314
Recruit

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« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2015, 09:42:56 PM »

Then I guess the ES mission should be with ACC. Sorry if I misspoke . AE and the Cadet program should be with AETC......
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lordmonar
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« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2015, 09:54:17 PM »

It does not work like that. 
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
railpig314
Recruit

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« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2015, 11:30:22 PM »

Then I guess we should really consider what our mission is going to be. SAR is not like it used to be. Again, another quasi government organization with an identity crisis.
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2015, 11:35:55 PM »

Hey,
Just wanted to put my own two cents in. Slim and I know the same SF NCO. He is a current member of CAP. I talk to him frequently. CAP members cause all kinds of problems at the base.

1st time, educate. 2nd time, 2b. Our place is to help the AF, not "cause all kinds of problems."

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lordmonar
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Posts: 10,689

« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2015, 12:03:11 AM »

Then I guess we should really consider what our mission is going to be. SAR is not like it used to be. Again, another quasi government organization with an identity crisis.
Yes...no more wasteing our time doing ramp checks...now we do SAR for real.  We also do real homeland security missions, and we do real USAF training support missions.

It is the 21st Century....our identity has not changed.   
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
JeffDG
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« Reply #94 on: May 31, 2015, 12:56:21 AM »

Then I guess we should really consider what our mission is going to be. SAR is not like it used to be. Again, another quasi government organization with an identity crisis.
Yes...no more wasteing our time doing ramp checks...now we do SAR for real.  We also do real homeland security missions, and we do real USAF training support missions.

It is the 21st Century....our identity has not changed.

The ES/DR/HS missions are the ones that pop up on short notice.  As such, it makes a TON of sense to have CAP organized under 1AF so they can assign the missions and they have the funds to make it happen.

The appropriated funding we receive for CP/AE are relatively well known in advance (rarely does an encampment pop up at 3am), and thus if money needs to move from AETC to ACC, there's time to do that paper shuffle.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2015, 05:28:10 AM »

Assuming cap - USAF actually interested, and they will assist with the appropriation of money in developers on the software server side. I already have a complaint reader and software.

And your assuming that CAP-USAF is willing to foot the 24k plus bill for it all.

It is evident that your mind is made up - this CAN'T happen, so you seem determined to see it not happen. You are entitled to your views. But, could you do the ones who see possibilities a favor? When/if they ask for volunteers to make it happen, simply let them?
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
abdsp51
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« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2015, 06:26:55 AM »

It is evident that your mind is made up - this CAN'T happen, so you seem determined to see it not happen. You are entitled to your views. But, could you do the ones who see possibilities a favor? When/if they ask for volunteers to make it happen, simply let them?

Never said it can't happen I have simply said and restated it is not as simple as everyone thinks it is.  It is at a min $24K for senior members alone and that is just for the material it's not taking into account the BI, the time to enter it into the system, and to process the cards. 

I understand you make a living doing this but access to an airport and a mil installation play by two different sets of rules.  And ultimately it will still come down to if the installation commander even decides that he/she wants us on their yard for anything. 

Nothing again nothing has come down and said this is going to happen at all it's all talk right now. 
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2015, 08:01:14 AM »

It is evident that your mind is made up - this CAN'T happen, so you seem determined to see it not happen. You are entitled to your views. But, could you do the ones who see possibilities a favor? When/if they ask for volunteers to make it happen, simply let them?

Never said it can't happen I have simply said and restated it is not as simple as everyone thinks it is.  It is at a min $24K for senior members alone and that is just for the material it's not taking into account the BI, the time to enter it into the system, and to process the cards. 

With the FEMA credentialing requirements we're eventually going to spend that money anyhow. Waiting doesn't make it cheaper (unless we are waiting for membership to attrit.)

The good news is that means appropriating funds for this becomes easier instead of forcing the members to shoulder it.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 08:05:51 AM by Starfleet Auxiliary » Report to moderator   Logged
Nuke52
Forum Regular

Posts: 191

« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2015, 10:23:42 PM »

I already have a complaint reader and software.

That will come in handy because there are lots of complaints on this website for you to read...
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Lt Col
Wilson Awd
MSG Mac
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« Reply #99 on: June 01, 2015, 04:06:31 PM »

There are a couple of issues currently being worked at the Air Staff level

1. Transfer of CAP to Air Combat Command
2. Recognition of CAP as the fourth arm of the USAF, (Active, Reserve, Guard, CAP)

The USAF-CAP Commander stated at the NSC that when these issues are completed, CAP would be eligible for entry to AF bases with a new ID Card
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
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